r/canadaguns • u/AutoModerator • Feb 06 '23
Weekly Politics Thread
Please post all your Politics or Ban-related ideas, initiatives, comments, suggestions, news articles, and recommendations in this thread. Unless new information is published in the media, recurring articles related to the gov'ts ***possible*** legislation are to be posted here. These threads will be weekly, until it's necessary for another per-week.
Previous politics threads can be found here. Previous threads can be found here.
We understand that politics is a touchy subject, and at times things can get heated. A reminder of the subreddit rules, when commenting, where subreddit users are expected to abide.
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Feb 07 '23
It's official MacGregor is off SECU.
I look forward to supporting @MPJulian in his work on #SECU and #C21 going forward and briefing him on the amendments we carefully crafted from witness testimony and submissions.
This is a huge blow. Any optimism I had about his amendments are gone. I'm back to just hoping for the largest delays, changes in the Senate, and an election.
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u/Office_Responsible Feb 07 '23
I feel that it’s punishment for going against party lines. To me this also damaged my optimism that the NDP could help our cause at some points. Sure they helped getting the amendments with drawn but I feel they will support them when in a separate bill
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Feb 07 '23
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the LPC asked the NDP to remove MacGregor.
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u/Office_Responsible Feb 07 '23
NDP have no backbone and would easily bend to that request, so it’s very plausible. They are a weak political party and their relevance is very much tied to the LPC
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u/amac109 Feb 08 '23
I feel that it’s punishment for going against party lines. To me this also damaged my optimism that the NDP could help our cause at some points. Sure they helped getting the amendments with drawn but I feel they will support them when in a separate bill
The party line was to oppose the amendments though
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u/Eoghanwheeler Feb 07 '23
Kind of huffing the Hopium here but It is possible that Julian will present MacGregors amendments by the sound of that tweet.
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Feb 07 '23
That is very possible but there are two problems
- He can't argue for them like MacGregor could
- Julian is fully supported of the way the current handgun freeze is
I had expected MacGregor's motions to take up the most time for the rest of the SECU meetings, but I doubt that now. I wouldn't be surprised if the rest of the amendment are rapid style voted on and it gets sent to the Senate by the end of February.
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Feb 06 '23
In politics news this week: Anyone else find it funny how the anti gun groups are blaming the conservatives for overriding the g4 amendments and this was their fault meanwhile NDP are proclaiming they are the reason why g4 was struck down.
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u/GinnAdvent Feb 06 '23
In general, if some gun measures proposed but no implemented or removed from discussion, anti gun control group will always blame Conservative.
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u/Prepresentation Feb 06 '23
It was ndp and cons working together. Cons should capitalize on that as possible con/ndp minority gov on the way.
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u/floydsmoot Feb 06 '23
con/ndp minority gov on the way.
NDP will never support a reversal of the scary rifle and handgun ban. Their beef was with hunting rifles.
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u/Prepresentation Feb 06 '23
Yes, and I was thinking of that. We need to clarify what is a hunting rifle. It should include things like the AR-10. We should also push that ar-15 are perfectly capable hunting rifles as well...
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u/floydsmoot Feb 06 '23
never happen with NDP. And forget about handguns
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u/Prepresentation Feb 06 '23
Handguns can be revived through pushing it as an Olympic sport.
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Feb 06 '23
So paywalling handgun ownership exclusively to people who have thousands to tens of thousands of dollars to burn in an already niche aspect of gun ownership? How exactly is that going to revive handgun ownership in Canada?
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u/bcbuddy Feb 08 '23
The government spent FIVE MILLION BUCKS IN MANAGEMENT CONSULTANTS for the Firearms Secretariat and didn't buy back a single gun
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u/CalibreMag Feb 08 '23
WHOA WHOA WHOA
They spent $5.4M last year. The total budget to buy no guns, over three years, for this government? That's closer to $10M.
Just so everyone's on the same page.
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u/Bushido_Plan Feb 08 '23
Government rewarding their own friends and supporters. Just another normal day.
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u/floydsmoot Feb 08 '23
MANAGEMENT CONSULTANTS
most lucrative business ever--a license to print money
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u/CalibreMag Feb 08 '23
Hombre, you are so right, and if Pierre wins there isn't a world where I'm not trying to get in on that dosh lol
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u/FunkyFrunkle Feb 06 '23
Imagine if the tables turn and governments start priding themselves on who can repeal the most bans lmao
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u/Fredarius Feb 07 '23
My favourite dumb thing anti’s say is that they don’t want to divulge how they decide a rifle/features is banned so gun companies won’t be able to design around those rules. Like what’s the purpose of rules if you can’t follow it. Lol
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u/Q-Ball7 In the end, it's taxes all the way down Feb 07 '23
Like what’s the purpose of rules if you can’t follow it.
The purpose of the rules is "fuck you"; sometimes they even say that quiet part out loud.
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Feb 07 '23
Like what’s the purpose of rules if you can’t follow it.
They want rules to ban as many guns as possible and have absolutely no limits.
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u/pewpewndp Feb 08 '23
Like what’s the purpose of rules if you can’t follow it.
Engineering non-compliance, adversarially
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Feb 08 '23
[deleted]
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u/TechnologyReady Radical Centrist Feb 08 '23
It's in Murray Smith's cross-examination entered into record in the CCFR lawsuit.
This isn't even a bad paraphrase. He actually said pretty much exactly that.
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Feb 08 '23
In case you may have mistakenly thought the G&M was friendly, read this
The Liberals beat a hasty, but necessary, retreat on gun control
Striaght up propaganda. It says written by the editorial board but this came straight out of the LPC or Poly. You can tell because they literally have no fucking clue how firearms work
The Liberals now say they will bring back the amendments, presumably in separate legislation. And that’s good; Ottawa can and should crack down on the proliferation of high-powered semi-automatic rifles for sale in Canada that have no place in a legitimate hunter’s arsenal.
There is a need for a sensible discussion about how some semi-automatic hunting rifles are capable of firing ammunition that is far more powerful than any hunter would want, and which can turn a legitimate civilian firearm into a tool of mass murder and destruction.
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u/FunkyFrunkle Feb 08 '23 edited Feb 08 '23
They make mention that the liberals need to avoid polarizing Canadians and stop using it as a wedge issue.
Well, right off the get go, wagging your finger in my face and telling me what I do and don’t need when the object or activity in question has been responsibly enjoyed and has been legal for a century is already polarizing. I don’t live in a maximum security prison. I don’t have to justify a need for anything. The only time I have to justify a need for anything is when I’m broke.
Why do you want to own semi-automatics?
Because I’m not a penniless hippy. That’s why.
You want “sensible” discussion? Then stop perpetuating nonsense. The people trying to build the legislation don’t know the first thing about firearms. Saying things like “Weapons that no legitimate hunter would want in their arsenal” and “can be transformed into weapons of mass murder and distraction” just makes you sound ridiculous.
I don’t take hunting, shooting or equipment suggestions from people who’ve done neither.
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u/floydsmoot Feb 08 '23
can turn a legitimate civilian firearm into a tool of mass murder and destruction
That's Poly's schtick. We're all just waiting for our opportunity to go postal at our local Costco.
Trouble is most naive urbanites buy it.
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Feb 08 '23
Already alluding to "No x needs y and z". Gotta love how slick they think they are when it comes to language
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u/floydsmoot Feb 08 '23
No x needs y and z
Don't you know the battle cry of the "Limousine Liberal" is, "if I don't have need for it, neither should you."
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u/rileysimon Feb 08 '23
I though people on this sub already know that G&M is an anti-gun media as same as Toronto Star, G&M's editorial board supported a ban on the sale of handguns
G&M is basically anti-gun fudd fiscal conservative and they're not your friend.
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u/GinnAdvent Feb 08 '23
I think they really need to have a government rep, and a rep from gun control group, and one from the firearm community, sit down and put on a bullet point form, what is fact and what's propaganda.
Once they established what the facts are, then whenever one start to BS, go back to bullet points and check.
How do you have a round that's design to hunt, not powerful enough for a mercy kill, meet the range and ballistic requirements?
This is the sort of stuff, that you only see true propaganda uses in WWII exclusively to reach their own goals.
Like, are they really going to sink that low?
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Feb 08 '23
Unless we somehow have semi-auto .50 bmg rifles, a .338 Lapua is still a common hunting round. So I don't see where there is any ammo "far more powerful than any hunter would want." They talk as if you can put more powerful ammo in the same gun and it becomes a death machine instead of just blowing up in reality.
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u/TechnologyReady Radical Centrist Feb 08 '23
Besides, a SP 338 is going to do a lot more damage than FMJ 50BMG.
Not that it's really relevant. You can't be "more dead". Anything like 308 and up is catastrophic to a human sized target.
Basically, they have to ban anything legal for hunting deer. Otherwise, what is the point?
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Feb 06 '23
Some bad news. Peter Julian has taken the NDP role of public safety critic and MacGregor has stepped down.
I'm not going to throw Julian under the bus immediately, he was the first person to ask the speaker to rule the amendment out of order.
However, I am very worried about what this will do to MacGregors amendments. I hope MacGregor keeps his seat in SECU to finish his work on C-21.
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u/marston82 Feb 06 '23 edited Feb 07 '23
Why are you happy with the NDP? I just saw a CBC segment where the NDP MP bragged about getting rid of handguns and ar15s and how great c21 is if not for liberal incompetence. Make no mistake they are our enemy as much as the liberals are. NDP despises gun owners and want to get rid of legal guns as badly as Liberals. The NDP will support future bans on modern semi auto rifles. They only stood against the amendments because public opinion shifted against it. Thank you Carey Price.
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Feb 06 '23
Why are you happy with the NDP?
Not happy with the NDP. I am happy they actually listened to their constituents on this. I also think MacGregor has done a good job in the position. It goes without saying the NDP is not our friend, but that doesn't mean we can't be happy when they do something good. MacGregor actually took the time to go to VFGPA and watch an IPSC match, ref an airsoft game, and talk to gun owners. We know he has amendments and it's likely they will at very least lessen the blow of C-21. That is why I say it's bad news he is stepping down, I don't trust any other NDP MP.
And that is something you have to keep in mind. We are not in a position to fix the bullshit the LPC introduces. The absolute best we can do is stall, delay, and get the best outcome until the CPC can get a majority. Through this perspective, the NDP did the best we can realistically expect from them.
I feel like I need to attach that last paragraph every time I mention the NDP.
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u/marston82 Feb 06 '23
Some individual NDP MPs are useful for delaying and obstructing liberal gun ban agenda, I will concede that.
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u/Eoghanwheeler Feb 06 '23
I wonder when the next bill c-21 related secu meeting is because tomorrows is about Russia.
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u/FunkyFrunkle Feb 06 '23
Was MP MacGregor the previous NDP public safety critic? I can’t find anything on google that he’s stepping down.
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u/floydsmoot Feb 07 '23
I just hope that if PP wins a majority in the next election he does something in his promised re-write of the Firearms Act that would make it impossible to change because I guarantee you that people will get sick of him and the LPC will again run on banning everything they possibly can to gain brownie points with a naive public.
I don't know much about constitutional law, but he needs to do something like entrench private property rights and/or let the provinces set their own gun laws or we're going to go through this all again. Gun owners have been the LPC's whipping boys as far back as I can remember (and I'm old) and they certainly aren't about to give that "milch cow" up.
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Feb 07 '23
People need to flood the mailboxes of CPC MPs in order to get that to happen. Can't afford to get complacent which I think could explain why we didn't see much else when Harper was around
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u/amorphoussoupcake Feb 07 '23
Exactly. We will have to put the same amounts of pressure on the conservatives that we put in to opposing the recent legislation.
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u/RydNightwish Feb 07 '23 edited Feb 07 '23
He needs to give full control over guns to the provinces. Its obviously not the perfect solution depending which province a person lives. However, I can see a future where this is the case and it is far easier to achieve than trying to get a unified national policy. There is simply too much division in the country. It will always be an urban vs rural, west vs east and quebec vs the rest. Any combination of these guarantee there will never be national unity on this. Quite frankly, the less ability quebec has to dictate how the rest of the country lives in all matters, the longer this country might survive.
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u/Brilliant_Gift1917 Feb 07 '23
He needs to give full control over guns to the provinces. Its obviously not the perfect solution depending which province a person lives.
RIP to all gun owners in Quebec and Ontario I guess
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u/RydNightwish Feb 07 '23 edited Feb 07 '23
Those two provinces should be able make thier own choices WITHOUT it impacting me on the other side of the country.
Currently they are central to where the libs get the majority of support for things like the oic, handgun freeze and now dead amendments. Why should my access to and responsible usage of firearms be hindered because some in ontario and quebec dont like them?
This pipe dream of a singular national policy on guns is just that, a dream. As it stands all it will get us is more wedge issues and bans on a national scale. Let the bickering be contained and overall the anti's lose thier power and influence proportionally.
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u/Brilliant_Gift1917 Feb 07 '23
I do agree with you, let the urbanites sleep tightly knowing the AR15's that were "on their streets" (spoiler alert: There are no AR15's on the streets) have now magically disappeared and let people who actually know the bare basics of guns and Canadian gun laws enjoy their lifestyle, it'd just mean I'd have to move to Alberta or something lol
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u/SecureNarwhal Feb 07 '23
so become like the States with a patchwork of different gun laws and having to choose between your firearms and job opportunities or relationships if it means living in a province that is anti-gun?
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Feb 07 '23
This entire country is going to hit a crisis whether or not guns cause it. Either provinces become more and more independent or Ottawa is going to have to deal with more than just angry rioters. This country is too big and too different to be controlled by a government elected by urbanites.
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u/floydsmoot Feb 08 '23
That's the only thing taht will work in huge diverse countries like the US and Canada and I'll take that over what we have any day of the week,
I'd prefer what Czechia has (one law for everyone) but that's a small homogeneous country.
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u/GinnAdvent Feb 07 '23 edited Feb 08 '23
That wouldn't be good tbh, I prefer to have the same thing throughout the provinces.
It would be a difficult dilemma for many people to move to a different provinces for what they want with their firearms, while there is no guarantee that future provincial government won't change.
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u/floydsmoot Feb 08 '23
to move to a different provinces for what they want with their firearms,
That's what it is in the US and I'll take that over a total ban any day.
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u/RydNightwish Feb 07 '23 edited Feb 07 '23
Like I said its not perfect coast to coast but I see it as a more feasible prospect. Do you truly, deep in your soul see a future in which alberta, sask and qc walk hand in hand with black rifles protected via constitutional amendment? Again, easier through amendments to provincial constitutions since only one province has to vote.
Your last point is moot.There is no guarantee that federal govts wont change either and eventually a liberal majority will return and once again we will be here concerned about the next gun grab or ban. The precedent has already been set that a govt can just oic these things in. I would prefer not to have to put my guns away every 4 years while I wait for the conservatives to repeal the next oic's or bad gun legislation.
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u/GinnAdvent Feb 07 '23
I think it very much becomes a personal decision what to do when that time comes.
Meanwhile doing what I can to promote a Canadian firearm culture and educate people.
The change in government can also happen provincial or federal level and I prefer to have something that sets in stones so we didn't have to go back and forth like this and goes whatever we have slowly erode away.
Just like saying, it ain't over until the fat lady sings, so we will see what happens when we need to cross that bridge.
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u/RydNightwish Feb 07 '23
Things are only going to continue to erode if all we do is wait for something to happen on the national level. We have been waiting for 30+ years and the bans, proposed or otherwise, keep coming. Meanwhile, there is momentum within some provinces that could see real change happen. Im 33 and two of my guns have been banned twice already!
In a perfect world I want to see something at a national level but with groups like poly, the bloc and toronto having such a disproportionate grip on power in this area, Im not gonna hold my breath that it will.
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u/floydsmoot Feb 08 '23
In a perfect world I want to see something at a national level
That's what Czechia has but that's a very small country. In a huge diverse country like Canada, what the US has is about our only hope.
You're right about Quebec and the GTA holding power in this country. Until that changes, nothing will.
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Feb 07 '23
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u/silentsam77 Feb 08 '23
I'm in absolute shock over this!
/s
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u/RydNightwish Feb 08 '23 edited Feb 08 '23
In trudeau's canada your not a criminal unless you have a valid PAL or RPAL.
Dont worry this guy will get bail again. I have no doubts there. He Is A vIcTiM oF sYsTeMic DiScRiMiNaTiOn and thats why him having illegal guns and drugs isnt an issue.
Fuck outta here with that.
Edit: its 1616 which means its time for the daily poly troll downvotes again. Everyone have an upvote on me.
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u/GinnAdvent Feb 12 '23
I know someone already made a post about this, but CBC should really use the correct terminology.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/markham-weapons-charges-1.6744409
It's not a weapon cache, it's firearms that's improperly stored. It's not type of explosive that use for purposes other than target shooting.
It's essentially negligent discharge, which yes, those people should be more careful because it could easily result in something worse.
I am sure some Liberals will jump on the photos with display of firearms and says those are not hunting rifles, well, they are sporting rifles.
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Feb 06 '23 edited Feb 06 '23
Copied and pasted this because I feel like it's worth restating. Last week was great but our community needs to start pushing hard with this momentum and settling for scraps won't cut it.
1) Being happy with pre 2020 conditions, or preserving the status quo in all aspects needs to stop. Firearms needs to be seen as a right, or at least so prevalent in Canadian culture that it can't be used as a scapegoat. It's only a matter of time until C21 2.0 arrives.
2) Sports shooting, sporting rifle, etc is language that needs to be avoided. It creates a low ceiling and shaky ground for gun owners to argue in and around. Haybinger949 said it best:
"Yeah, imagine being actively targeted and vilified by almost every federal political party and media agency for the better part of 50 years and thinking your best defense is to willingly categorize yourself as no different than something as superfluous as someone who collects matchbox cars or plays frisbee golf".
Point is, it looks ridiculous when all we do is say "loog at us :DDD"
3) Overall, gun owners need to shift the culture from a hobby / casual past time to a lifestyle and everything else that comes with it.
E: I forgot to add but continuing down the sports shooting narrative will eventually paywall us and make gun culture here exclusive to rich old people similar to how it is in some euro countries. I think we're already seeing it with the NDP being pro-handgun ban except for "high level" sports shooting and ultimately pro-AR15 ban.
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u/FunkyFrunkle Feb 06 '23
There’s an opening too, since the liberals begrudgingly admitted to hunting and self defence. If guns * can’t* be used for self defence, why do police have them?
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u/CenturionV Feb 06 '23
Can't as in they think it should be illegal to do so, not can't as in it isn't possible. As far as the liberals are concerned, you dying in a violent home invasion is better than having Canadians legally use guns for self defense. They barely even want the police using their guns to defend themselves or others let alone normal people.
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Feb 06 '23
[deleted]
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Feb 06 '23
Even worse. We're gonna keep seeing bills like these again and again and again and again until our right to bear arms is codified
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u/Rook_Defence Feb 07 '23
I don't look at it that way. Maybe you can clarify for me what you mean by "lifestyle and all that comes with it" but at present I really don't see the advantage to the culture shift you're describing.
Making gun culture exclusive to rich elites is obviously bad. Making gun culture exclusive to people who are committed to making it the central part of their lives is also bad. I would be over the moon for there to be an extra million new gun owners in Canada even if they only had a 10/22. That's a million new skeptics, a million more voices, and a million examples of how gun owners are trustworthy.
If gun ownership has to be less casual than it is now, then by definition, it will be less popular than it is now. The smaller the gun owning population gets, the easier it is to dismiss, ostracize, and demonize.
Hobbysit gun owners can still write letters, leave comments, introduce new people to shooting, and most importantly, demonstrate to their friends and family that it is totally boring and normal to own a gun. If someone says "man, those gun nuts are all a bunch of psychos. Only a sicko would ever want to own a gun" the people they're talking to think of the casual gun owner they know, not about the most recent deranged lunatic they heard about across the border.
In summary, I think you're underestimating the value of having casual, accessible elements of the gun community.
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Feb 07 '23 edited Feb 07 '23
I can't quote properly on phone
1) the hobbyist / sports shooting aspect to gun ownership seems to be the ceiling for most of us. As in there can't and shouldn't be more to it than shooting recreationally. I'm arguing there needs to be greater significance to gun ownership that extends past paper punching and hunting otherwise
a) we see a threepeat of OIC, handgun freeze and C21 semi auto ban again
b) never gaining ground, only reclaiming
2) agreed. My entire point is there's more on the line than just sports shooting
3) depends on how you look at it. I've said it before but fluffing up numbers with a million people who bail at the slightest inconvenience... not worth a lot. Generalizing obviously but I hope you see my point
4) yep
There's nothing wrong with casual aspects of gun ownership. This entire thing ranging from bench shooting to hunting to larping with nods. all of it should be considered casual. My argument is that it feels as though we're stuck on bench shooting and hunting because people are either afraid of or look down on* the third and final part, which is what I don't understand.
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u/humanefly on Feb 07 '23
The sports shooting community should have made a much greater effort to target video game players IMO, that way the younger generation would have more of a connection to the sport.
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u/RaHarmakis Feb 06 '23
I disagree pretty completely with this.
Pre 2020 regulations worked pretty well from a public safety perspective. Having a robust licensing and background checks isgood, and we should be championing them. These regulations are a big part of why we can honestly say we are the most law-abiding segment of Canadian society.
In the end, as a group, we need to appear more sane than those that oppose us. Ranting about 2A style rights, will get us less than nowhere. We need to continue focusing on how safe we are as group, and how regulations don't impact those that make Canadians unsafe.
No one wants the unregulated clusterfuck that some of the USA is, as they see it as significantly less safe than we are.
The Canadian Psyche for good or bad hinges on the idea that we are not/better than the Amaericans.
All of the fights that we are in now are because of the US and the population not wanting us to be like the US. They don't understand the system we had before, but they know they don't want the system in the US that appears to be actively producing mass shootings at an unacceptable rate. Advocating for anything that looks like the US regulatory system will play right into the Liberal hands.
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u/throwa37 Feb 07 '23 edited Feb 07 '23
Advocating for anything that looks like the US regulatory system will play right into the Liberal hands.
In the short term, arguably. But in the long term, the gun discussion being dominated entirely by the sportsman argument is what got us exactly to where we are today, so it's not like it can get much worse.
Notice that the narrative around C-21 didn't change - and the Liberals had no intention of withdrawing the amendments from C-21 - until the discussion shifted to the rights of rural and indigenous Canadians, and how it would impact the weapons necessary for their way of life. Ultimately, to get to where we want to go, taking the guns has to be seen as a violation of the rights of the people, not a mere revocation of their "sporting privileges". Only now are we starting to move in this direction, and we're already seeing results.
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u/Haybinger949 12(7) Feb 06 '23
The thing is, these ideals of licensing and background checks existed for along time, they were literally around before the Firearm's Act even existed. The system used to approve and distribute PALs, while slightly different, was already being used for the FAC pre 1990s.
When considering this is what "everyone loves/appreciates about Canadian common sense gun laws", then suddenly you start to realize that 90% of the laws to follow, are in fact nonsense and only serve as a means to further civil disarmament.
There is a short book, perhaps more of an expanded pamphlet, called: Observations On A One-Way Street: The Canadian Firearm Control Debate. It was presented and distributed by a combination of organizations (NFA, IPSC, CSAAA, etc.) in Canada in the early 1990s as a voice against C-68/The Firearm's Act. You argued:
We need to continue focusing on how safe we are as group, and how regulations don't impact those that make Canadians unsafe.
This book literally made this exact argument, it contains detailed statistics, charts and tables alongside other international examples to parallel Canada. Things we always espouse about our lower crime incidence rate, the minimal quantity of legal guns used in actual crime, plummeting homicide rates outside of organized crime and so on. This has already been the attempted strategy since the beginning of most of the modern gun control movement. And it didn't stop a damn thing.
While I accredit C-68 with *a few* marginal benefits in giving national clarity on regulations, the majority of the bill that wasn't already in some form of law was just laying out firearms prohibitions and the mechanisms to continue to enact them. It's time to push back on a different front, or history will just repeat itself.
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Feb 06 '23 edited Feb 06 '23
"Pre 2020 regulations worked pretty well ... having a robust licensing system and background checks is good"
Sure. But they only open up the potential to be abused seeing how C21 is going. It needs to be re-done otherwise we're in for another round of nonsense whenever a Liberal government is re-elected.
"As a group we need to appear more sane than the opposition. Ranting about 2A-style rights will get us nowhere ... we need to emphasize how safe [gun owners] are as a group"
We already do. I can't imagine a more sane group considering we have police chiefs and academics arguing for us but no one seems to listen for more than a few minutes. Secondly, the 2A and gun culture down south are the two reasons as to why guns will never disappear in the US. We don't have the luxury of having our right to bear arms recognized and codified, so it's going to be a constant push and pull (and therefore a political issue) until then.
As for your last point, yeah. We're in this mess because of single celled organisms who import American issues into our border and simultaneously claim they don't want to be American. Again, winning hearts and minds and shifting our gun culture. We can't keep beating the same drum when that drum has been used to hit us in the face. It won't work anymore.
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Feb 07 '23
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Feb 07 '23
1) so either change the culture or get us as close to a 2A as possible. As I said in a previous reply, I do not understand why treating sports shooting as the absolute limit to gun ownership here is seen as the only way to go about things when it literally led us to the OIC and C21
2) changing and winning hearts and minds
3) already have been. CCFR, NFA and all the rest have been doing a decent job. As I said in a previous reply, we have police chiefs and academics doing this for us too
4) good. As you should
5) here we go with this single issue voter bs thrown in. As I said in a previous reply guns represent a lot more than just sports and treating them as ONLY a hobby is why we're in this mess
6) so you almost see my point. Appeasing the government is idiotic and treating guns as something I can casually pick up and put down without a care in the world = nonstop bs. If the community by and large doesn't take itself seriously the govt sure as hell won't
7) yes but sports shooting should not be the ceiling of gun rights otherwise it will be treated as a bullshit hobby, which it's not. People carry guns professionally, to protect themselves out in the middle of nowhere and as a means to protect themselves if things ever get weird
8) correct. I've done it before but it's fair to say that some people will forever remain single celled organisms
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Feb 09 '23
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Feb 09 '23 edited Feb 09 '23
I just had my BC transfer from early October cleared, should be done any day now.
Edit: Definitely a surge. FOC sent this email
Please be advised, the volume of transfer approvals being received daily is currently in excess of our daily shipping capacity. Delays are being experienced as a result.
Please allow 3-10 business days for your tracking to update. We are working through the backlog as quickly as we can.
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u/MLI691H Feb 09 '23
Hopefully they are able to sustain the rate and get my hand guns before mid March!
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u/Beretta_errata removeddit pro Feb 11 '23
From CSSA
Amendments G-4 and G-46: A Quick Explanation
A number of our members have contacted the office with questions regarding the government's withdrawal of Amendments G4 and G46. They want to know what this means to them – what they can and cannot do. This is understandable as the goalposts seem to be constantly shifting.
There have been four major initiatives directed against lawful gun owners by the federal Liberals.
The May 2020 Order in Council: This is the original Order in Council (OiC) that banned 1,500 makes and models of sporting and hunting firearms under the guise of "assault weapons". The RCMP has slowly expanded this list to now include 2,058 makes and models. This OiC was unaffected and remains fully in force although none of the firearms have been confiscated and, despite the government's professed promises, no compensation program has been created.
Bill C-21: This legislation is the Handgun Freeze. It bans the sale, purchase and transfer of legal handguns in Canada. Criminals are unaffected. It allows the legal owner of these handguns to keep and use them until the owner's death at which time, the firearms are legally stolen by police from the grieving family and destroyed. This legislation is currently in practice, and we have many reports of confiscations occurring within a few days of the owner's demise. Our advice to the families of the deceased owners is to inform the police that the executor will retain possession pending deactivation.
Amendment G-4: This is the so-called "Evergreen Clause". This bans all semi-automatic, centerfire firearms with box magazines, now and in the future. This amendment captured huge numbers of hunting firearms, sparked outrage amongst hunters and has been withdrawn.
Amendment G-46: This was the newest list (309 pages) of firearms the government wants to steal from you and includes many common hunting and sport firearms like the ubiquitous SKS rifle, the Ruger PC Carbine, and a huge list of common Benelli shotguns. Again, no mention of compensation – just theft from Canadians. This amendment was also withdrawn. See the list of firearms HERE.
We are cautioning our members not to enjoy the reprieve too much. The feds are simply regrouping and are planning to amend the amendments and reintroduce a newer version again.
Keep the pressure on and let the government know how you feel. Understand that the Liberal party is not our friend and doesn't care about you, your property or your family. Understand too, the only real cure for all of this is governmental change. Please work tirelessly toward that goal.
Please contribute to our lawsuit against Bill C-21 so that families can keep the sport shooting tradition, and the generational wealth invested handgun collections. Above all, don't be complacent and never give up!
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u/chillyrabbit Feb 11 '23
Well I can't believe a lawyer wrote that as it has a serious error which compounds the misunderstanding. C-21 is not in effect yet as it is still pending legislation in the house of commons.
More accurately the government is using OiC's from different acts to create a regulatory regime similar to C-21.
Issuing an oic under the export and import permit act to restrict handguns from being imported.
Issuing an oic under the firearms act changing the conditions to transfer a handgun.
It still sucks but it is not C-21
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u/Beretta_errata removeddit pro Feb 11 '23
Maybe a typo meaning c-71
Also difficult to keep track of "An Act to amend certain Acts and to make certain consequential amendments"
Really? Do they speak consequential English?
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u/Brilliant_Gift1917 Feb 10 '23
The CCFR pod said there's like, 93 other amendments we haven't seen to C21. Nothing good is to come, I'm guessing?
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u/FunkyFrunkle Feb 10 '23 edited Feb 10 '23
I don’t know about 93. I heard there was somewhere in the ballpark of 30-40 more. This isn’t coming from any official source, just people talking about it. The average seems to be within that range but still not good for the anxiety. But we don’t know what those amendments are going to look like. We can probably surmise that some of those are going to be related to ghost guns and 3D printing.
The CCFR, while I support them do tell white lies every now and then to keep people concerned (as they should be). Downplaying it isn’t going to get people fired up. Politically, you have to fight fire with fire sometimes. The liberals seem to have no scruples when it comes to lying, so it’s not unreasonable to think the CCFR engages in it too.
That being said, if there really are 93 amendments, there’s a good chance this isn’t being passed anytime soon, and it will probably spend a while in the senate as well. Filibuster it until an election and use it as a legislative hostage. Give us a majority or else!
There were always going to be more amendments. How significant we don’t know.
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Feb 10 '23
No one except the committee members know for sure. However, there is expected to be a significant amount. If they come from the CPC, they are likely all positive for us but also basically guaranteed to not be adopted. We know the NDP has amendments. They were crafted by MacGregor, but will now be presented by Julian. We know MacGregor has amendments to save airsoft, likely with brightly coloured tips or something. It also expected, based off of his consultation and speaches, that there may be exceptions that broaden sport shooting exceptions to include things like IPSC. The last thing we know is happening for sure (although we don't know from who) is ghost guns. Likely will require internal parts buying to show a PAL like with ammo.
Aside from those things, we don't know anything else.
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Feb 11 '23 edited Feb 11 '23
SECU Meeting next Tuesday to discuss the removal of G-46 and G-4, and will likely attempt to reintroduce them.
Edit: I do understand the reason the amendments were removed but the Liberals stated that they will either reintroduce them or make them their own bill after "getting it right"
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u/Brilliant_Gift1917 Feb 12 '23
Is there any evidence so far to suggest they are actually going to try and reintroduce the semi-auto ban in this bill beyond what they stated about "getting it right"? Everything I've heard so far - from both people who think and don't think a semi auto ban is coming, have said that it would be ruled out of scope in this bill and that they will most likely introduce another one to do so.
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u/Haybinger949 12(7) Feb 12 '23
There is really no evidence of anything at this point regarding the Bill/amendments.
Other than a couple tweets from Mendicino and Michaud about further actions and finding out about the NDP stuffing Macgregor back into the cupboard, we're in the dark until Tuesday.
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Feb 12 '23
[deleted]
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u/FunkyFrunkle Feb 12 '23 edited Feb 12 '23
They tell white lies and exaggerate the truth. It’s by design. It’s to get more people upset about what’s going on because we need everyone on the same page here. It’s meant to get otherwise unmotivated fudds fired up because they need to understand that the “fuck you got mine” thing isn’t going to make things better. The liberal government doesn’t like Johnny hunter with his clapped out Lee Enfield anymore than they like Mikey sport shooter with his AR-15.
We need everyone across all spectrums engaged in this. Not just small pockets of affected owners getting slowly picked off while everyone else who’s currently unaffected sleeps in the back with their bass pro shop hats pulled low across their face. There needs to be a groundswell.
Misinformation is the bane of our political discourse, but the government engages in it all the time. Just look at what happened. You have to fight fire with fire sometimes.
The CCFR is our only chance of a lobby group that will carry any weight.
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u/Brilliant_Gift1917 Feb 12 '23
does she actually have anything to go on by saying the government will try to reintroduce the amendments?
The liberals directly said that they would try to 'get it right' and would not be abandoning their attempt to ban 'assault weapons'. We're absolutely either going to see an OIC, another bill, or an amendment to this one. Some people have hope that they won't attempt another rifle ban in C21 because it'll be ruled 'out of scope' but you can never be certain with the liberals.
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u/throwa37 Feb 12 '23
There's no way they're going to reintroduce them already. They've had no time to make changes, they just withdrew them the other week.
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u/Cooliecollie Feb 10 '23
What do you all think the chances of liberals pulling another stunts like banning semiautos through OIC or tabling a stand alone bill?
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u/FunkyFrunkle Feb 10 '23 edited Feb 10 '23
It’s honestly difficult to say. The Trudeau liberals have a reputation of making promises and delivering on none of them really.
Are they going to try again? It’s a liberal minority government fighting for its life trying to stay stylish and relevant. Yeah. They’re going to try again. Almost every liberal government has to meddle with guns in some way.
But I think this was a genuine embarrassment for them on some level. It made them look incompetent and public opinion on gun control, although varied, seems to somewhat pale in comparison to things like bail reform. Make no mistake, they don’t feel sorry for not consulting. They’re sorry that they got caught. They’re probably pissed that bail reform is taking more of a lead on the issue of violent crime than guns are. I don’t think they were planning on that particular chicken coming home as soon as it did.
With semi autos, I think there’s honestly going to be few exceptions. The SKS is probably going to be left off the list (for now) because it was more or less at the center of the controversy. Guns like the 1908 Mauser are almost certainly being left off because that was the whole reason why they were put in there. To be taken off. Bargaining chips. They’ll remove the controversial ones but it’s still shit because 95% of what was on the amendments are going to be back on there. wE tOoK tHe HuNtInG rIfLEs oFf!
The shooting sport is never going to be safe under any liberal government thanks to party lines.
However, I’m going to offer a little copium. It’s worth remembering there still is no working plan for a buyback or confiscation. I’m getting the impression that there isn’t any real sense of urgency behind any of this. The liberals were in more of a hurry to invest a couple of billion dollars into that company that didn’t exist and their excuse for being in such a hurry was “climate change is happening”. So why are we not seeing the same sense of urgency where people are allegedly actively dying from legal guns?
Political baiting and distractions is my guess. It was a nice distraction when people started asking which 12 MP’s received funding from China, and it lured conservatives into a rage pit to make them look like American republicans. If the bill fails, you can always blame it on conservative cock blocking and use it as a cudgel for a very possible election. They just have it on simmer to get some good election fodder. I think that’s another reason why they didn’t bother to do this when they had a majority. This has been a campaign promise since 2015. Why wait until you have a minority and need to bank on the support of other parties? They could have rammed this right on through in 2015. It doesn’t make sense.
My theory is there was no need to break out gun control when they had a majority. Gun control is the liberals political fire alarm. The amendments were dropped last minute because there wasn’t enough outrage coming from conservatives to capitalize on prior, and it was a good political diversion. That’s when Trudeau tried to capitalize on the “misinformation” thing and it blew up in his face. There was a gamble being made that your average person who doesn’t care about guns wouldn’t bother to read the bill and understand what they’re looking at. Then they can come back, remove the amendments and say “we’re listening to hunters” and make the conservatives look insane.
Promise gun control
Get elected
Drag it out
Wait until you have a minority
Announce gun control
Go big to put on a fireworks show for your urban voters
Lure conservatives into a rage
“Compromise” and make it look like they’re listening to gun owners. Put out fireworks
Win support
Drag it out until election. Drop the writ
Gun control took so long and failed because conservatives. Don’t actually have to commit to doing anything
Better luck next time. We need a majority. Pls vote 4 us
Get out of jail free
Needless to say they never did their homework. I genuinely don’t think they expected the SKS to be so commonly used as a hunting rifle and that’s what got the FN involved in the fray.
Edit: Expanded and clarified my little theory. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
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u/Bushido_Plan Feb 10 '23
Honestly? 99%. Probably as close to 100% as it can be. Make no mistake, it was both a calculation of the Liberals to put the amendments as a "test" to get a feel for what the public and other political parties will do, while being able to retract it to garner support to pass the original C21 bill (also lets their allies such as the NDP save face by having them go after the amendments so that they can then still support C21).
If not the current Trudeau-led Liberal government, then no doubt in the future whenever the next Liberal government is in power then. And the one after that, and so on and so forth, slowly wittling down the industry.
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u/GinnAdvent Feb 10 '23
I thought it was fairly obvious that no matter how Liberal spin it, they will always gain something from it not matter the outcome, because they can always come back with another reason plus their old reason for the "greater good" speech.
It's better to get Conservative into majority, and rewrite the Firearm Act so it's has a perm stance instead of being going back and forth.
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Feb 10 '23
Rewriting the firearms act is really the only way to finally settle this. A few good clear cut definitions of what is prohib, restricted and non restricted based on mechanical capabilities and not vibes would hopefully rationalize the conversation
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Feb 10 '23
High and it'll likely happen soon. The Liberals took an L on the two amendments they wanted but have promised their pet gun control groups another run at the same legislation, and probably a standalone bill.
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Feb 10 '23
It depends. We aren't going to see any amendments to C-21 (because of the out of order situation), and I think the LPC would like to take a win by passing C-21 after they nearly killed it all.
I highly doubt we see an OIC, especially before the court case. We should have the results of that case (it will likely be appealed no matter what) by the end of May. Depending on the decision, the LPC may be able to ban whatever it wants via OIC without explanation. If they get that outcome, then I think we will see an OIC as soon as some American shooting happens for them to piggyback on. However, if they don't get that outcome (even if they win the judge may limit the scope of future OIC bans), I don't think we see any OIC bans. Also,, aside from legal implications, it is incredibly poor optics to ban guns through executive measure when your democratic attempts failed. TL:DR on OIC is that it's possible, but not likely.
A future stand-alone bill is damn near guaranteed. The question is when. They do these gun bans because they impress dumb ass suburbanites and it appeases their anti-gun lobby friends. However, their failed attempts with G4/G46 has left a sour taste in many peoples mouth (people who would normally be supportive). Couple that with the LPC being seen as significantly out of touch and focusing on the wrong things, they can't risk further damaging their brand. I also think when they do want the attention back on guns, they want all the attention. So introducing it while another bill is currently in progress doesn't make sense. So, with all that said, I think we could see the standalone bill be presented in late 2023.
Here is something else to keep in mind, gun bills typically take 15-20 months to pass. If we are generous and use the next schedule election as the cutoff, the guaranteed DOA date is June 2024, and if we're lucky, it could be as early as January 2024. However, as I've said, I would shocked if we didn't get an election before 2025. The NDP should easily have enough money by Q1 2024 to run an election. Right now, the best thing we can hope for is a standalone bill because it is extremely likely to die in an election. We don't really have a choice, but all of our eggs are in the "CPC wins the next election" bucket. Because if they don't, say goodbye to all of your semi-autos.
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u/No-Adhesiveness-9866 Feb 10 '23
I’m honesty appalled that this government has banned guns twice via OIC. It is blatantly undemocratic to use an OIC to avoid voting on issues
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Feb 10 '23
As long as they're in Ottawa they're going to continue to try it. But in the near future, very low chance.
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u/Cooliecollie Feb 10 '23
You contribute a lot on this sub lately. appreciate your input. Let's hope liberals get booted (or voted out) and stay out for long time.
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u/Apples_and_Overtones Your feet suck and so do you Feb 10 '23
Fairly high, but probably not too soon. They went all-in too early and it shot them in the foot.
There's possibility they'll reintroduce the amendments but "lessened," though it'll probably be recognized as out of scope for the bill.
Once C21 inevitably gets through the process they may do an OiC again.
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u/Brilliant_Gift1917 Feb 10 '23
They went all-in too early and it shot them in the foot.
They've also basically told every gun owner - from the fudds who still voted liberal to the tacticool larpers, that they want everyone's guns and none are safe, not even single-shot rifles. Them clearly stating they intend to try again doesn't help either.
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u/mithridartes Feb 08 '23
Not really a politics question, more of an RCMP AR definition clarification. What does the RCMP consider an AR-15? Is it just if the upper fits onto an AR-15 lower? If so why haven’t we seen AR-180 uppers with full AR-15 like features? Like a rear charging handle, etc. it’s just interesting to me that we always joke about cope guns and stuff.
Bonus question, If the MRA straight pull is not an AR-15 lower (which it must not be since it’s not prohibited like we assume those new lever ARs will be), then why does it need to be neutered to a straight pull? Couldn’t it be semi auto and NR?
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u/throwa37 Feb 08 '23 edited Feb 08 '23
What does the RCMP consider an AR-15?
Literally whatever they feel like. I know that sounds like hyperbole, but there are shotguns and bolt-action rifles that have been deemed "AR-15s" by the RCMP and prohibited. It's corruption, top to bottom.
If the MRA straight pull is not an AR-15 lower (which it must not be since it’s not prohibited like we assume those new lever ARs will be), then why does it need to be neutered to a straight pull?
Legally speaking, it doesn't need to be, but see the answer to your first question. MRA is doing everything possible to avoid giving the RCMP an excuse to maliciously classify the rifle. You can ask the manufacturers of the Maccabee SLR, BCL 102 and ATRS rifle what happens when you follow the law to the letter and make a semi-auto rifle that rides too close to the line of looking like an AR-15.
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u/rileysimon Feb 09 '23
Even .22lr guns like M&P 15/22, KRISS DMK-22C, Tipman M4-22, Umarex rifles that look like AR-15 with non interchangeable upper and lower part still ban by OIC 2020.
Right now, I felt like Canadian gun laws is like gun laws in my third world country home where the government agency could use their "judgement" to ban or feeze importation of firearms that perfectly legal for civilian.
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u/Q-Ball7 In the end, it's taxes all the way down Feb 09 '23
is like gun laws in my third world country home
Because the sitting government is just setting up to do shit third world countries are famously known for.
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u/CalibreMag Feb 08 '23
They used to consider the pins basically the linchpin of the AR platform; if it pinned to an upper, it was an AR.
But that got thrown out the window with the OIC. What the govt considers an AR today is anyone's guess.
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u/RaHarmakis Feb 08 '23
What the govt considers an AR today is anyone's guess.
They have simplified they classification system:
Q1: Do I want to ban it? A2: If Yes.... Cool, it's an AR15 variant A2: If No..... I see, then it's an AR15 variant that slipped by using a Loop Hole, and now we need to Ban It.
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u/RydNightwish Feb 08 '23 edited Feb 08 '23
Honestly if you didnt tell the mounties that thier C8 is a variant of an AR15 they would likely just assume its an AK.
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u/Beretta_errata removeddit pro Feb 09 '23
AR-180 uppers with full AR-15 like features? Like a rear charging handle, etc.
Charging handle plus forward assist to replace one metal rod out of the side, add $2000
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u/marston82 Feb 09 '23
The MRA is not legally required to be bolt action. It was designed to be that way by the manufacturer on purpose because they were afraid making it semi auto would get it banned. The company self policed themselves. Some Canadian gun companies just lack the courage to make a semi auto rifle, that's the reason. They will never admit to it but it is very obvious.
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u/soviet_democrat Feb 08 '23
That classification policy went out the window with the OIC, which critically also made AR uppers "prohibited devices".
That's why the Modern Sporter was FRT banned despite not being compatible with an AR lower. In the RCMPs eyes it uses 90%+ AR parts (making it an AR "variant"), and the upper you're proposing would almost certainly be treated the same.
The closest we ever could get was what iRunGuns was hyping up a couple years ago with a BRN-180 upper reconfigured for a AR-180 lower, maybe with some FX9 features to get the rear charging handle (but that's already pushing it). The action would have clearly to be based on an AR-180, or other some other non-prohibited firearm, in order to make the cut.
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u/TEC-DC9 Feb 08 '23
I read a document a few months ago about how firearms are classified as variants or modified versions. I really wish I had saved it, but from what I remember, there were about 7 or 8 criteria that are taken into consideration. They included things like lineage, parts interchangeability, marketing, information provided by the manufacturer/importer, and whether the firearm was modified with third-party parts by the consumer or if it was released as such from the factory in the specified configuration.
So, there's not really one "thing" that makes an AR-15 an AR-15 in their eyes. It's more like a checklist.
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Feb 08 '23
Bonus question, If the MRA straight pull is not an AR-15 lower (which it must not be since it’s not prohibited like we assume those new lever ARs will be), then why does it need to be neutered to a straight pull? Couldn’t it be semi auto and NR?
2 reasons.
1: They are being extra careful because you never know with the horse police
2: It allows for SBR builds to be NR. In the event of ARs coming back, they have a niche market for hunters and inna woods people.
Also, it does have a propriety bolt carrier, which may also keep it from being an AR.
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u/Brilliant_Gift1917 Feb 12 '23
The Conservatives haven't had a majority in over a decade, and even then their majority was slim. Is there any real chance that they could win in 2025? Considering the country is run solely by urbanites, and a lot of urbanites are progressives who automatically equate Canadian Conservatives with their American counterparts, are there enough Canadians who will actually care enough about how the Liberals have fucked the country to vote a different party this time round?
And even in the best-case scenario where there is a Conservative majority, is it then likely that they'd actually bother repealing the current gun bans, as well as whatever other crap the Liberals continue to add over the next 2 years?
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u/FunkyFrunkle Feb 12 '23 edited Feb 12 '23
There are degrees to everything. Nothing in life is ever an absolute, and things change. People can be left leaning, but even in this tumultuous time, alliances can change. The effects of inflation, healthcare and a housing crisis are affecting everyone regardless of political leanings. When you’re getting beat down, any change is going to seem good.
There are still plenty of “urbanites” that are right leaning, and conservatism is picking up steam with younger people apparently. Things in life change all the time, and rarely do things fall into neat little categories.
I’d be more worried if the conservatives had Green Party numbers. But they aren’t realistically that far off from the liberals.
There’s reason behind the saying: “Canada doesn’t vote parties in, it votes parties out”.
While nothing is ever guaranteed, I think it’s very realistic that the conservatives might win government. Majority territory? That remains to be seen but crazier things have happened.
In regards to codifying firearms ownership so it never gets touched again, that’s a pipe dream but not because it would offend urbanites. It’s because of how our legislative system works. Government cannot tie the hands of future parliaments when it comes to prescribing legislation. And that’s the unfortunate reality.
I honestly think the liberals secretly don’t want guns to completely disappear because it would be like throwing out all the fire extinguishers in their house made of newspaper. They need something divisive to fall back on when they need a shakedown and the gun debate worked very well to distract people when it was discovered that 12 MP’s received funding from China. It took the media spotlight right off of Justin when he was going through that Emergencies act inquiry. Politicians don’t really care about anything other than image and re-election. That’s it.
We’re the props in a twisted play.
There are going to be ups and downs. AR’s have been banned, unbanned, and banned again.
We’re not safe, no. The honest to god best advice I can give you is to breathe, spread our gospel and fight back. The long-gun registry got repealed which would have been a great tool to have for a confinscation. That was a massive W for gun owners.
If it happened once, it can happen again.
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u/Physical_chucklefish Feb 12 '23
Time will tell, no party ever says in power forever in Canada. Look at ontario, they had a liberal provincial government for a long time till people got sick of their shit and voted them out
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Feb 12 '23
We'll be alright
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u/Brilliant_Gift1917 Feb 12 '23
I hope so. I still don't even have a single damn gun because of how long it takes for a simple process of checking if someone's a criminal and/or a crazy takes (this is obviously this way on purpose to make sure less people have guns or have interest in acquiring them), and the more they push for banning guns and disarming people is the more I wonder if they know something we don't. Also sucks that I might not be able to enjoy basic things like semi-automatic rifles (or even anything better than a fucking flintlock muzzleloader at this point) by the time I actually get a PAL.
The Conservatives where I lived before didn't give a fuck about anyone but themselves and never kept a promise. I know this doesn't appear to be the case for Canada but I do hope they keep to their word and revert these bullshit changes and the inevitable semi-auto ban that will probably get implemented before they get elected.
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u/Nunkeey Feb 11 '23
I’m looking at getting into a new .22 semi auto rifle, specifically the Derya TM-22 but I’m worried about what will be banned or is on the list. Since it is an “AR” look-a-like rifle.. bit of a newbie, just looking for some more input on the situation in Canada with rimfire semi autos. Thanks
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u/Brilliant_Gift1917 Feb 09 '23
Not been in the loop outside of the gun politics - is it still looking like there may be a Spring election? All this crap could be (at least temporarily) ended if we got one, and the Conservatives could even remove the OIC if they got into power.
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Feb 09 '23
The LPC has less incentive because their poll numbers have dropped hard. If they call an election it's to try and satisfy Trudeau's ego and attempt to gain a minority government before it becomes impossible to get any government.
If an election is called, it is more likely to come from a non-confidence motion. It all depends on the NDP and if they have the money to fight an election and/or if they believe they could make significant (i.e. official opposition status) gains.
It is very possible there is an election, but absolutely nothing is guaranteed. What I can say is that I am extremely confident there won't be an election during the 2024 presidental election.
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u/Brilliant_Gift1917 Feb 09 '23
So we'll likely just have to sit tight until 2025 and pray that their future attempt to ban semis is bogged down?
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Feb 09 '23
I doubt it. The NDP should have enough cash by late 2023. When I say presidental election, I mean the August-November period. I could see an election be called anytime before or after that. I would be shocked if we made it to 2025 without an election.
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u/Brilliant_Gift1917 Feb 09 '23
I hope you're right for all our sakes. This recent few years of liberal rule has resulted in nothing but relentless attacks on the individual rights of Canadians, and not just in the context of firearm owners.
I just read about that Albertan gun company whose guns weren't banned in the OIC a few years ago, so the CFO of Alberta at the time, and RCMP went out of their way to victimize them and try to bully them out of making guns. They refused to stop producing their guns, so the CFO launched a Cease & Desist to stop them producing their guns and now the case is just stuck in court hell, effectively preventing the guns from being made despite complying with the law. There's so much bullshit they can do to stop legal gun owners from owning guns, it's ridiculous.
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u/SettingPitiful4330 Feb 09 '23
That the ATRS? I want Want one so freaking bad but not paying the 2×-3× that they go for used
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u/Brilliant_Gift1917 Feb 10 '23
If I had the money I would. It's not really their fault they can't make any more, they failed to find legal grounds to class it as an AR15 variant so the CFO at the time instead launched a personal Cease & Desist to freeze their production and now it's getting dragged through court hell. I can't necessarily fault people for charging high for them considering how rare they are and how reliable they are compared to basically any other 556/223 semi auto we're allowed to own.
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u/Haybinger949 12(7) Feb 09 '23
Absolutely no chance the Liberals would launch an election until the results for the AB provincial election are in. That election is on May 29th this year, it will probably be used as a substantial bellwether for the Liberal's odds in a snap federal election.
The media has pretty much unanimously been against Smith since before she was even elected leader, and she has been getting panned almost weekly for even the most innocuous things, sometimes things that never even happened. Despite this, she realistically still has a very high chance of winning the election - the 2015 NDP win was largely due to the Conservative base being split between two separate parties. Much like the 2019 election, there really is no viable second option for anyone that doesn't support the NDP, so the only way to lose will be either poor voter turnout or if the amount of interprovincial transplants from the past 4 years is too biased to the left.
Of course if the NDP win the Alberta election this year, Saskatchewan will be pretty much the last bastion standing before Canadian oblivion.
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u/floydsmoot Feb 09 '23
Saskatchewan will be pretty much the last bastion standing before Canadian oblivion.
Actually AB and SK are about the only hope I see for guns in this country because because the GTA and Montreal region pretty much decide what's "good" for the rest of us.
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u/Haybinger949 12(7) Feb 09 '23
Yes, unless what I said in the first half of my statement happens:
Of course if the NDP win the Alberta election this year
AB will not be able to hold the front on guns for very long under another NDP tenure. Even if they only make it for a 4 year term and get ousted again, we will not be in any position to pick up the pieces of whatever is left.
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Feb 09 '23
What is the best avenue of approach if AB loses to the NDP? Slow descent into Minecraft? I genuinely don't know /can't think of any solution other than for a federal conservative government to ram property rights into law before they are voted out.
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u/Haybinger949 12(7) Feb 10 '23
If I voice my honest opinions on this, I will probably get banned. All I will say is that a lot of good people left the province between 2015 and 2019, many of us who didn't have since planned some level of contingency on how we will should a "next time" occur. Some of course are "stuck" here, as for them I don't have a lot of constructive advice that can be utilized with this short of a notice period. The time to plan was 8 years ago, the time to act will be at the drop of a hat by the end of May.
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u/Q-Ball7 In the end, it's taxes all the way down Feb 09 '23
Actually AB and SK are about the only hope I see for good in this country
Yeah, it's unfortunate.
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u/Apples_and_Overtones Your feet suck and so do you Feb 09 '23
I could never vote for Smith. I consider her off the deep-end. I tend to be more right-wing politically but I think what the party has become, especially with this leader is too far for me and I can say I am definitely not the only one with that opinion. I would certainly not say a potential NDP win is the result of "too many transplants."
That said, not particularly keen on NDP this time around either if firearm rights are to be considered, since they're A-OK with provincial/municipal level bans.
Kinda sucks. Not interested in voting this time around tbh.
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u/discostu55 Feb 09 '23
damned if you do damned if you dont, i dont like smith eithier but notely played her "weapons" card to soon
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u/Haybinger949 12(7) Feb 10 '23
I could never vote for Smith. ...and I can say I am definitely not the only one with that opinion.
Yes, like I said they could likely be hurt a lot by people just not voting at all causing a general poor turnout.
I tend to be more right-wing politically but I think what the party has become, especially with this leader is too far for me
I have pretty much only seen this opinion online or from people who still watch the 6 o'clock like it's 1986. Other than the media surrounding them, almost none of the bills have been any different than those put forwards by the past 20 years of AB Conservative governments. Bill 1 is obviously the exception to this, but it has barely been used other than as tokenism so far. It's still the same party, with almost the exact same cabinet Kenney had.
Smith wasn't my first choice on the ballot, but my MLA still stands for what I voted by and still has my support to continue their mandate. Your thoughts may differ of course and I can respect that.
Kinda sucks. Not interested in voting this time around tbh.
Rather than abstaining, I suggest you still go to the polls, but reject your ballot. Don't spoil it, if you do that it just goes in the trash. Instead, return it to the officer as a "rejection" (I don't know the exact term for it, check the election handbook when it's published). This way it goes down as recorded that you explicitly chose to not vote for any of the available choices.
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Feb 11 '23
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u/FunkyFrunkle Feb 11 '23
Check. Your. Shit.
Make it muscle memory. When I go out shooting and I’m finished for the day it’s just habitual to check and see if it’s unloaded and there’s no brass ANYWHERE in the gun. Visual check, pinky check.
When I’m at home doing maintenance or cleaning there’s no live ammo within 20 feet of me.
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u/rastamasta45 Feb 11 '23
Absolutely brother, whenever I open my safe I clear my weapons again, sure I know they’re in the safe but you have to build that muscle memory. Army taught me when a firearm leaves your sight line, check it, you’ll never be punished for being safe!
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Feb 11 '23
Absolute idiot. If you accidentally had a ND make sure your shit is stored properly because you are receiving a visit.
I am very curious what the prohibited magazine was. Based on this guys stupidity I wouldn't put it passed him to have actual prohib mags. But at the same time I wouldn't be surprised if the cops thought LAR mags were prohibited or he had some over 10 round 10/22 mags.
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u/throwa37 Feb 12 '23
If you accidentally had a ND make sure your shit is stored properly because you are receiving a visit.
It would probably be best to throw your illegal guns, mags, and fucking explosives out the window too, lol
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u/Armed_Accountant Whoever wants to touch my guns has to touch me first. Feb 11 '23
Fucking idiot(s)
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u/throwa37 Feb 12 '23 edited Feb 12 '23
As somebody who lives in an apartment building, this story terrifies me. I had my Marlin 336 on my table for cleaning after a range trip last year, and when I opened the action to remove the bolt, it sent an empty casing flying across the apartment. My blood ran fucking cold realizing that after a decade-plus of civilian gun ownership, after all these years of clearing guns being muscle memory, I had a lapse and failed to clear the weapon at the range. It could just as easily have been a live round, and I could have done the same thing as this guy with just an ounce of carelessness.
I think people are too quick to jump to calling people idiots for this kind of thing. Just like you can have someone with a thirty-year spotless driving record who rear-ends somebody one day, all it takes is a moment of inattention or complacency to have an accident like this. It doesn't make the person stupid, but it should serve as a wake-up call that they might be getting too comfortable.
I wonder if they charged him for the ND just to dump charges on him for the prohib mags/weapons and illegal storage, or if they would have charged him even if everything else was squared away.
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Feb 11 '23
I dunno what happened, but there's no way that this can happen if you're not being a dumb dumb.
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u/SettingPitiful4330 Feb 11 '23
Rip dude had a sick collection too... such a waste. I could really use that acr stock that will now probably be destroyed 😢
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Feb 09 '23 edited Feb 09 '23
We have AR pistol mags because of American "pistols", so could we have SIG FCU "rifles" because they are built into rifles in the US?
Edit: No, read further down for explanation.
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Feb 09 '23
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u/Beretta_errata removeddit pro Feb 09 '23
But, Browning Buckmark was available as a rifle, so there are exceptions.
I would love to have a Walther GSP rifle conversion.
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u/GinnAdvent Feb 10 '23
An update to the off duty officer who took his own life at a gun range in Langley BC.
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Feb 13 '23
The anti-gun groups have been awfully hostile ever since those amendments were dropped and have ramped up attacks on the Conservatives with the help of a few Liberal MP's. The next few months are going to be interesting if Mendicino intends to keep his promise to Poly.
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u/FunkyFrunkle Feb 13 '23
The liberals have really put themselves in a double jeopardy with C-21. They removed the amendments because enough people got pissed off about it, and it put the NDP and the Bloc in an awkward situation since they have quite a few rural ridings. The liberals need the support of these two parties to get to 2025.
Apparently, gun-control ninny’s in urban Canada are screaming at the government for withdrawing the amendments, while rural Canada is foaming at the mouth over the amendments even being proposed in the first place, and anyone who voted liberal before probably isn’t going to come election time. I think the Liberals have put themselves between a political rock and hard place. The conservatives are almost definitely going to pick up a few seats. How many god only knows.
They’re naturally inclined to lean towards the gun control nut cases, but if it comes at the expense of the NDP potentially losing seats, it’s going to get interesting.
God only knows. Brace yourselves for Tuesday ladies and gentlemen.
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u/GinnAdvent Feb 13 '23
I mean, anymore coming from Liberal will literally be count as going after firearm owners again where we can basically throw the same stuff at them, If not more. Basically go any further, you will be losing rural ridings that you can count on Bloc and NDP not willing to lose.
If the economy get any worse, or healthcare aid proposed by NDP is just another lip service, I am not sure if Liberal aren't at risk of losing seat either.
The mistake for Liberals would be using such an issues but backfires on them quite unexpectedly but you always have to assume they will come back with something bad for firearm owners.
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Feb 13 '23
The NDP's support can always be bought. That's really my biggest issue with people praising them for forcing them to be removed- they still agree with the 2020 OIC and a semi-auto ban, it's just that they got caught out after claiming it wouldn't affect the people that it did.
The SKS and all other semi-autos are still on the chopping block and I don't think the NDP would say a word if the Liberals threw another OIC at us.
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u/unlicensed_software Feb 10 '23
So I don't know alot about guns but does the withdrawal of Bill C-21 mean that pistols will be on the market again with an RPAL? If not, what can you even get after the ban with an RPAL?
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u/GinnAdvent Feb 10 '23 edited Feb 10 '23
Amendants for the semi auto they slipped in on a Friday afternoon has been removed. The C21 for handgun transfer ban and import still in effect.
PS90, Bren 2, M1 Carbine, any restrictied rifle are still good to go with RPAL.
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u/MajorCocknBalls Feb 10 '23
C-21 was not withdrawn. The amendments the liberals tried to add to C-21 to ban many long guns were withdrawn.
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u/Toughduck48 Feb 06 '23 edited Feb 06 '23
And now for something completely different. We should be lobbying for tax free purchases on all gun safety and storage equipment. Free trigger locks with every fire arms purchase.
If the current government is willing to fund safe injection sites and free needles for public safety, then it's only fair to incentivize gun safety. Drug users made a choice to get into drugs, we just made different choices. Both choices require safety to be paramount. They are talking about decriminalizing drugs yet we're facing criminalization. What kills more people?
Free Gun lockers, cleaning kits, and trigger locks should be the norm!
A guy can dream.....
Edited some spelling.