r/canadaguns • u/AutoModerator • Feb 06 '23

Weekly Politics Thread

Please post all your Politics or Ban-related ideas, initiatives, comments, suggestions, news articles, and recommendations in this thread. Unless new information is published in the media, recurring articles related to the gov'ts ***possible*** legislation are to be posted here. These threads will be weekly, until it's necessary for another per-week.

Previous politics threads can be found here. Previous threads can be found here.

We understand that politics is a touchy subject, and at times things can get heated. A reminder of the subreddit rules, when commenting, where subreddit users are expected to abide.

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u/mithridartes Feb 08 '23

Not really a politics question, more of an RCMP AR definition clarification. What does the RCMP consider an AR-15? Is it just if the upper fits onto an AR-15 lower? If so why haven’t we seen AR-180 uppers with full AR-15 like features? Like a rear charging handle, etc. it’s just interesting to me that we always joke about cope guns and stuff.

Bonus question, If the MRA straight pull is not an AR-15 lower (which it must not be since it’s not prohibited like we assume those new lever ARs will be), then why does it need to be neutered to a straight pull? Couldn’t it be semi auto and NR?

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u/throwa37 Feb 08 '23 edited Feb 08 '23

What does the RCMP consider an AR-15?

Literally whatever they feel like. I know that sounds like hyperbole, but there are shotguns and bolt-action rifles that have been deemed "AR-15s" by the RCMP and prohibited. It's corruption, top to bottom.

If the MRA straight pull is not an AR-15 lower (which it must not be since it’s not prohibited like we assume those new lever ARs will be), then why does it need to be neutered to a straight pull?

Legally speaking, it doesn't need to be, but see the answer to your first question. MRA is doing everything possible to avoid giving the RCMP an excuse to maliciously classify the rifle. You can ask the manufacturers of the Maccabee SLR, BCL 102 and ATRS rifle what happens when you follow the law to the letter and make a semi-auto rifle that rides too close to the line of looking like an AR-15.

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u/rileysimon Feb 09 '23

Even .22lr guns like M&P 15/22, KRISS DMK-22C, Tipman M4-22, Umarex rifles that look like AR-15 with non interchangeable upper and lower part still ban by OIC 2020.

Right now, I felt like Canadian gun laws is like gun laws in my third world country home where the government agency could use their "judgement" to ban or feeze importation of firearms that perfectly legal for civilian.

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u/Q-Ball7 In the end, it's taxes all the way down Feb 09 '23

is like gun laws in my third world country home

Because the sitting government is just setting up to do shit third world countries are famously known for.

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u/throwa37 Feb 09 '23

Yep, that's exactly what they're doing, no exaggeration or hyperbole.

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u/CalibreMag Feb 08 '23

They used to consider the pins basically the linchpin of the AR platform; if it pinned to an upper, it was an AR.

But that got thrown out the window with the OIC. What the govt considers an AR today is anyone's guess.

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u/RaHarmakis Feb 08 '23

What the govt considers an AR today is anyone's guess.

They have simplified they classification system:

Q1: Do I want to ban it? A2: If Yes.... Cool, it's an AR15 variant A2: If No..... I see, then it's an AR15 variant that slipped by using a Loop Hole, and now we need to Ban It.

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u/RydNightwish Feb 08 '23 edited Feb 08 '23

Honestly if you didnt tell the mounties that thier C8 is a variant of an AR15 they would likely just assume its an AK.

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u/Dickastigmatism Feb 09 '23

What's a C8? You mean my Patrol Carbine?

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u/Beretta_errata removeddit pro Feb 09 '23

AR-180 uppers with full AR-15 like features? Like a rear charging handle, etc.

Charging handle plus forward assist to replace one metal rod out of the side, add $2000

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u/marston82 Feb 09 '23

The MRA is not legally required to be bolt action. It was designed to be that way by the manufacturer on purpose because they were afraid making it semi auto would get it banned. The company self policed themselves. Some Canadian gun companies just lack the courage to make a semi auto rifle, that's the reason. They will never admit to it but it is very obvious.

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u/soviet_democrat Feb 08 '23

That classification policy went out the window with the OIC, which critically also made AR uppers "prohibited devices".

That's why the Modern Sporter was FRT banned despite not being compatible with an AR lower. In the RCMPs eyes it uses 90%+ AR parts (making it an AR "variant"), and the upper you're proposing would almost certainly be treated the same.

The closest we ever could get was what iRunGuns was hyping up a couple years ago with a BRN-180 upper reconfigured for a AR-180 lower, maybe with some FX9 features to get the rear charging handle (but that's already pushing it). The action would have clearly to be based on an AR-180, or other some other non-prohibited firearm, in order to make the cut.

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '23

[deleted]

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u/soviet_democrat Feb 08 '23

The whole issue is that we don't know why exactly it's a variant (it's FRT just cites the OIC), all we can do is guess.

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u/TEC-DC9 Feb 08 '23

I read a document a few months ago about how firearms are classified as variants or modified versions. I really wish I had saved it, but from what I remember, there were about 7 or 8 criteria that are taken into consideration. They included things like lineage, parts interchangeability, marketing, information provided by the manufacturer/importer, and whether the firearm was modified with third-party parts by the consumer or if it was released as such from the factory in the specified configuration.

So, there's not really one "thing" that makes an AR-15 an AR-15 in their eyes. It's more like a checklist.

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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Feb 08 '23

Bonus question, If the MRA straight pull is not an AR-15 lower (which it must not be since it’s not prohibited like we assume those new lever ARs will be), then why does it need to be neutered to a straight pull? Couldn’t it be semi auto and NR?

2 reasons.

1: They are being extra careful because you never know with the horse police

2: It allows for SBR builds to be NR. In the event of ARs coming back, they have a niche market for hunters and inna woods people.

Also, it does have a propriety bolt carrier, which may also keep it from being an AR.