r/canadaguns • u/AutoModerator • Jun 06 '22
Weekly Politics Thread
Please post all your Politics or Ban-related ideas, initiatives, comments, suggestions, news articles, and recommendations in this thread. Unless new information is published in the media, recurring articles related to the gov'ts ***possible*** legislation are to be posted here. These threads will be weekly, until it's necessary for another per-week.
Previous politics threads can be found here. Previous threads can be found here.
We understand that politics is a touchy subject, and at times things can get heated. A reminder of the subreddit rules, when commenting, where subreddit users are expected to abide.
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u/GoodGuySunBro Jun 08 '22
Travis Bader and Dan Fritter (owner of Calibre Magazine) discuss the looming handgun freeze and I think everyone should see the discussion because Dan raises some very good points here. The entire podcast is a little long but I recommend watching the whole thing.
For those who don't have time here's some key takeaways:
- Stop calling Trudeau the gun salesman of the year, this is counter-productive to the cause and needlessly antagonistic.
- This handgun ban IS NOT about public safety. It's about scoring cheap political points. The sooner we accept that, the sooner we can adjust our approach to make the most impact.
- We need to shift the focus onto the major issues facing Canadians that the government wants to distract us from. Things like affordable housing, inflation, healthcare and the opioid crisis are significantly more severe and relevant to the majority of Canadians, and the government is doing nothing about these things!
- In the event of a handgun ban it will cost the government and Canadian taxpayers likely over a billion dollars to implement and will not have any effect on public safety and the money would be better spent trying to solve one of the many issues above.
- We need to get organized and get active. Write or visit your local MP and tell them that this issue matters to you. Especially in ridings where the number of firearm owners exceed the margin that the MP won by, this is significant leverage.
This issue is not a firearm owner issue - this is a Canadian issue. We need to stop trying to sway non-firearm owners using firearm related arguments because they simply don't care. Make this about Canadians and how this is a massive waste of resources that could be better spent addressing real issues. The government is using legal handguns as a scapegoat so they can score cheap points without doing any real work to better the lives of Canadians. We need to tell them that we're onto them and we won't stand for it.
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u/throwa37 Jun 09 '22
This handgun ban IS NOT about public safety. It's about scoring cheap political points. The sooner we accept that
Who doesn't accept that?
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u/CalibreMag Jun 09 '22
A shocking number of people, honestly. Go stand in a gun store for a few hours and most comments you'll hear will be older gents saying "this won't prevent crime," and sort of leaving it at that. The average understanding of what we are facing is quite simply too shallow to skip a stone across.
This is partly why I want to start doing more polling and whatnot with Gunvote. Our community is not as homogenous as it seems from the online experience. Like, the vast majority of gun owners aren't even on social media. And yet, social media leads gun advocacy in Canada; it's the primary method of messaging and fundraising, and I think (for a variety of reasons) both of those are significant problems that we need to recognize, address, and confront if we're to be successful.
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u/CanadaGunsMod Jun 09 '22
Our little community here has roughly the same number of people as the CCFR socials. I'm willing to bet there's 80% overlap, if not higher.
So, at best, we're reaching 80,000 out of 2.2 million.
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u/throwa37 Jun 09 '22
Fair enough. I meant more like that everybody on this sub already understands.
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u/floydsmoot Jun 09 '22
stop trying to sway non-firearm owners using firearm related arguments because they simply don't care
True. the majority of Canadians have either swallowed the "evil guns" Kool-Aid or just simply just don't give a shit.
The only people who care about guns are gun owners or people interested in buying guns and there is just not enough of us to make a difference. I don't even trust Fudds because they mistakenly think they won't come after their guns. I know several myself who couldn't care less if they banned black rifles or handguns.
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Jun 06 '22
I’m in Vancouver. Since the handgun freeze a dude with a sword stabbed a guy at a gas station, another dude stabbed someone to death in their house and a third guy robbed a bunch of businesses with a knife.
People who don’t own pals are all pro gun control until they realize we have PLENTY of gun control.
They’re still scared shitless of someone breaking into their house or randomly assaulting them.
They’ve done experiments in the states where they have high risk men living wage jobs and guess what. They put their handguns down.
We gotta demand we divert the money from this c21 bs and back into the communities where these criminalized and high risk people live and support them
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u/TKB-059 bc Jun 06 '22
a dude with a sword stabbed a guy at a gas station
Gas really does cost an arm and a leg now.
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u/throwa37 Jun 06 '22
I'm sure they would be very receptive to that, if the objective of the legislation was to impact gun violence and not to disarm the serfs.
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u/PteSoupSandwich The 10/22 Dude Jun 06 '22
Shit happens a lot out here in rural Ontario too..
Double Homicide 20mins away from my house
Break & Enter + Assault 10mins away from my house
Be lucky to have the Five Oh show up in time
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u/throwa37 Jun 08 '22
Between Biden talking about 9mm "blowing the lung out of the body" (as opposed to .22LR), and Poly talking about the .223 round "going through walls", it makes me wonder how extremely distorted these people's perception of guns could possibly be. These are people that purport to support the ownership of "hunting" rifles. Do they think we're out there dropping deer with airsoft pellets? How can you be OK with a bullet being able to kill a moose, but be alarmed that it can penetrate drywall? I don't understand.
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u/scamcitizen999 Jun 09 '22
They know nothing about guns and won't ever learn. They don't need to. Poly and others are funded by people who want to disarm the population. Simple as that. People keep trying to rationalize why poly acts the way they do. And it is because they are paid to. What they actually think personally isn't that important because they spend no time considering reality or alternatives. Their objective is to serve the liberal agenda of disarmament.
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u/marston82 Jun 09 '22
They have somehow created a cognitive dissonance in their minds. In their distorted view, tactical rifles and pistols are evil and made to kill people which they think requires inordinately powerful ammunition because people are hard to kill. Hunting rifles on the other hand are designed to kill animals which they think are easy to kill and are hard to handle and shoot. Therefore, hunting guns are safe and the caliber does not matter.
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u/yummybunnybear Jun 09 '22
They think that hunting rifles are soft hitting because meat is soft. They don't know about skulls and bones because they get their meat packaged in stores
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u/TechnologyReady Radical Centrist Jun 09 '22
Tracey Wilson reporting:
Today in #SECU, the chair asked if there was unanimous consent to report the regs for #C21. The Conservatives denied them that consent, saving immediate implementation of the “freeze”. 🇨🇦 #FastTrackDenied #NotTodayLiberals #DaneLloyd
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Jun 09 '22
Thank you CPC
Get fucked everyone else
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u/Armed_Accountant Whoever wants to touch my guns has to touch me first. Jun 10 '22
So Bloc is back on the naughty list?
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Jun 10 '22
Yes. They have cleared their messaging recently. They are in favour of the bill, even though they know it won't do anything to crime, because they hate gun owners.
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u/MajorCocknBalls Jun 09 '22
saving immediate implementation of the “freeze”
Good. Fucking cock suckers.
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u/xKYLx on Jun 09 '22
God forbid you have a democratic process and I dunno, debate a bill and hear from different sides and ask questions
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u/TechnologyReady Radical Centrist Jun 09 '22
I thought the last opportunity for this, during this session, was last Tuesday. How many more opportunities are there?
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u/Flat-Dark-Earth Big Bore Specialist Jun 09 '22
So we have until Oct now?
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u/TechnologyReady Radical Centrist Jun 09 '22
I wouldn't say that, not until Parliament rises for the summer which is still a couple weeks off.
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u/Cadaren99 on Jun 09 '22
They need 30 sitting days, there isn't enough time before the house rises on the 23rd. Then they're not back until 19 Sept.
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u/TechnologyReady Radical Centrist Jun 09 '22
Thanks, but after all I've seen, there's only two people I trust to tell me what is going on procedurally: CalibreMag and Ian Runkle.
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Jun 06 '22
Guys, I'm absolutely shocked
There may be hope... I don't know what to do
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u/Amaterasu127 Jun 06 '22
Hopefully the NDP realizes that they don’t have to be the Liberals’ running mates too and we can get this shit to not be passed.
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u/throwa37 Jun 06 '22
It's going to pass, but if the other parties are actually starting to come around on it, we might at least get some good amendments out of it that'll make it easier to ride things out until we can eventually repeal.
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u/devilish_kevin_bacon Jun 06 '22
What kind of bizzaro timeline do we live in for BQ to be on our side, or at least our ally (no matter how small of a role)
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u/Spider-King-270 Jun 06 '22
Given the cost of gas, food and everything perhaps the BQ smell blood and want some seats.
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Jun 07 '22
I’d like to imagine a lot of rural Quebecois threatened to vote them out if the BQ went through
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u/throwa37 Jun 06 '22 edited Jun 06 '22
Why, it doesn't go far enough? They won't support it unless they confiscate, or what?
EDIT what the fuck, did the Bloc hit their heads or something? Don't get me wrong, I like it, but what is this 180 they're doing on legal handguns
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Jun 06 '22
He actually said they shouldn't target legal owners and aren't doing enough for the illegal/smuggling side. He even quoted the Montreal police chief in saying it will do nothing.
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u/throwa37 Jun 06 '22
Yeah, I edited my comment, I'm kind of in disbelief. This is so radically different from the normal Bloc rhetoric that it's bizarre
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Jun 06 '22
I think it's possible they've been getting a lot shit from businesses, ranges, and owners. Remember that the Bloc controls almost all of rural and suburban Quebec outside of Montreal.
I can't see the LPC backing down, but I think its possible that transfers will be allowed like the 90s handgun ban. I can live with that until a CPC government comes in and rewrites all the bullshit.
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u/throwa37 Jun 06 '22
Exactly. If we can get some good amendments, it'll make it a lot easier to live with for a few years before we kill it.
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Jun 06 '22
Our biggest worry right now is the regulation change proposed to the committee.
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u/Spider-King-270 Jun 06 '22
Daily reminder when we get a CPC government we have to hold their feet to the fire and make sure they don’t forget about us and stay true to their word.
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Jun 06 '22
Absolutely. When they have a majority we must put as much pressure as possible.
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u/Armed_Accountant Whoever wants to touch my guns has to touch me first. Jun 06 '22
Hell hath frozen over. Idk what to think, someone do it for me.
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Jun 06 '22
I'm still shocked.
I'm just worried about the regulation change presented to committee. If there is a possibility of changes to the bill the LPC will want to push the freeze through this way ASAP. I hope the CPC, Bloc, and NDP can come together to block that regulation.
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Jun 07 '22
Just got an email from SFRC
The Sig, S&W, Beretta, Charter Arms, FMK, Walther, Ruger (except Wranglers) and Glock distributors are now pretty much sold out.
We have also reduced the price of many of our in stock "Black Guns"
Basically all of their "black guns" are on sale, even the 22lrs. I thinks it's pretty safe to say they aren't just clearing stock because they are getting more shipments. Looks like businesses are trying to avoid what happened in May 2020.
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u/ayysilver Jun 08 '22
I...uh, kinda miss Harper right now. Never thought I would say that but here we are.
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u/Tacticfreedom Jun 09 '22
I don't get all the hate towards Harper, sorta off topic, but he brought Canada's debt lower than it has been in a long time. And Trudeau managed to bring it higher than I ever fathomed it could get.😂
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Jun 09 '22
Anyone else just start thinking about our current government and just think "holy fuck everything is so fucked".
I have never liked this government, but it feels like everything has combined into one shit storm and created the worst possible scenario.
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u/TheChroniclesOfTaint Jun 09 '22
"They’re shit flowers Randy, from here they look like regular flowers but when you get down and poke your nose in them you realise they’re shit flowers, and theres a whole fuckin' bouquet of them!"
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u/scamcitizen999 Jun 09 '22
The boiling frog effect, a continual slandering of alternative media, and persistent lying about the right has caused the majority of Trudeau voters to be unaware that they are supporting an authoritarian fascist. The FNIC for me was when he said "right wing terrorism is on the rise in Canada". Like..what? Objectively it isn't. But he is out to paint an entire political movement as terrorists. Sorta like another famous dictator. People think fascism is someone pulling you out of your home at gunpoint. And after a year of everyone labeling their political opponents as fascists the word has lost its meaning and we can't recognize it anymore. But we are definitely most certainly there. Think about travel mask laws. Just us and NK, China remain. Purely punitive and authoritarian.
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Jun 09 '22
Yeah. I'm waiting until everyone gets fed up with the liberals and they get shitcanned into oblivion. It's already happening, so only a matter of time
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u/Current-Ad7988 Jun 10 '22
Russel Brand did a good job of calling him out. As good as i sound in my own head i am horrible at articulating my thoughts but i think he summed it up pretty well.
He also calls him out pretty hard in another video over freezing peoples bank accounts and invoking the emergencies act but this is the most recent video.
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u/Terrible-Paramedic35 Jun 07 '22
Just a side note but… In Edmonton Cabellas and at least one other retailer is refusing handgun consignments as of the last couple days. They are anticipating an order in council and dont want to get left holding the bag. I would imagine this means that most retailers have also halted orders fir restock as well.
I assume that when Prince Justin goes on vacation… if no order in council has been made… they will return to bussiness as usual.
Makes me wonder what buzz is on the Hill though.
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Jun 07 '22 edited Jun 07 '22
It's because it's entirely possible the freeze comes on June 7th, tomorrow. It's entirely up to the committee, if they do nothing, the CPC filibuster, or they debate it won't come tomorrow. However, if they decide to vote on it right away and vote in favour of it, the freeze comes tomorrow.
If Parliament takes its break before it gets voted on then the next time it can pass in October 4th. I would expect that businesses would be willing to get some new stock and take used firearms should this scenario happen.
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u/ggghosted Jun 07 '22
Plot Twist: Turdeau is Pro-Gun and conspiring against the Anti-Gunners, convincing civilians to take arms
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u/Armed_Accountant Whoever wants to touch my guns has to touch me first. Jun 07 '22
Funny enough, in 2011 he very well appeared that way. Talking about how Canada has a culture around guns, he respects the need “to go out and shoot stuff”, etc. Apparently he even had firearms growing up but they were stolen from his cottage…
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u/Dickastigmatism Jun 07 '22
2011 he very well appeared that way. Talking about how Canada has a culture around guns, he respects the need “to go out and shoot stuff”, etc.
Yes! I remember a fuzzy 480p video of him saying that in the early 2010s and I've been hunting for it since.
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u/Armed_Accountant Whoever wants to touch my guns has to touch me first. Jun 07 '22
https://youtu.be/O3Gs_mwWmTk?t=28
The only one i could find.
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u/Doctor_Dabmeister Jun 07 '22
Trudeau is only a figurehead for the beliefs and policies of the Liberal party. I'm certain that the next leader of the Liberals will be just as anti-gun if not more so than Trudeau
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u/Newfoundgunner nf Jun 07 '22
He ever get a visit by the pony police for his unsafe storage? Does he have his PAL?
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u/drain-angel BC Jun 07 '22
So for those following the CPC race, Aitchison recently sent out an e-mail regarding his positions (although this position isn't publicized anywhere).
The bottom line:
I’ve long defended the rights of legal firearms owners. Under my leadership, we would simplify Canada’s firearms classification system, scrap this ridiculous freeze, and stop playing politics with public safety.
This leaves only Charest - who explicitly said he would not do anything about guns & Baber - who hasn't said much on the issue.
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Jun 07 '22
Charest actually said that he would review the firearms act, but that's it. Still, he is the most untrustworthy person with firearms.
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u/TechnologyReady Radical Centrist Jun 07 '22
In other news... Ian Runkle picked up a whole boatload of new subscribers/followers due to his coverage of the Debb-Heard trial.
A lot of them are Americans, and some of them are apparently Democrats. And I think they didn't know about Ian's position on a lot of things. This will be interesting to see what happens. How he responds, what happens to his viewership, etc.
https://twitter.com/IanRunkle/status/1534246953483218945?s=20&t=O8-5U_15VQP6AdXNW6SJEw
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Jun 07 '22
Can someone report that Poly post for being misinformation?
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u/TechnologyReady Radical Centrist Jun 07 '22
Yep, I agree, and he's said as much. As I said, will be interesting to see what happens.
Honestly, I am worried if we lose him. He's an invaluable resource, and IMO, performing a service to Canadians. Not so much the gun stuff, but also just general criminal law. Most of us have no ability to decipher most of this before he came around.
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Jun 08 '22
[deleted]
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u/NightFuryToni Jun 08 '22
Hope he goes back to putting out firearms stuff again
He put his first C-21 2.0 video out just today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUu4VBD2bzQ
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Jun 07 '22
Ian doesn't strike me as the kind of person to do what's popular to stay popular.
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u/Apples_and_Overtones Your feet suck and so do you Jun 07 '22
He opens every video with "I'm a criminal defense and firearms lawyer lol. Guess people really are just subscribing because bandwagon.
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u/knine71551 Jun 07 '22
Looks like rumor mills took the best of us but great that it was just a rumor
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u/Apples_and_Overtones Your feet suck and so do you Jun 07 '22
All I saw via Ian Runkle and some other sources was that we could be fucked as soon as today. It was possible but seemed unlikely, and I'm glad it was so far.
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u/floydsmoot Jun 09 '22
"What is very much not a joke is the relentless enthusiasm with which Canadian politicians will exploit any tragedy or controversy in the United States for their own political ends."
"we are importing foreign tragedy to drive a domestic political agenda."
Adam Pankratz: Has Canada been annexed by Texas, or are the Liberals playing cheap games? https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/adam-pankratz-has-canada-been-annexed-by-texas-or-are-the-liberals-playing-cheap-games/ar-AAYh52O?cvid=e3853a87a3274ecb8fc206e35db50bb0
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u/Jaded_Economics7949 Jun 11 '22
I can't believe the government is trying to disarm us and there isn't huge pushback. Can't we get a massive protest going?
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u/discostu55 Jun 11 '22
lol, the people are okay with censoring the internet. We need pressure on the ndp to break the coalition
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u/Jaded_Economics7949 Jun 11 '22
I'm surprised they have a voter base at all. The only seperate themselves from the liberals around election time. Any other time and their two peas in a pod
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u/throwa37 Jun 11 '22
The problem is that 75% of Canadian homes don't have guns in them, and even out of the 25% that do, only a handfull have ARs and handguns. Only a small percentage of gun owners - already a small percentage of the population - are actually directly affected. Most of the millions of gun-owning Canadians just own a rifle and/or shotgun or two, and nothing will change for them.
I support the idea of a protest, but there's practically no way we can make it massive. Maybe when they come for the pump and lever guns.
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u/Jaded_Economics7949 Jun 11 '22
Yea your probably right. Good point. I just can't imagine never getting the chance to compete in 3 gun or anything. I feel robbed
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u/throwa37 Jun 11 '22
You were robbed. There is no reason to deny you the opportunity, and it's being taken away from you by disgusting, sociopathic politicians that are doing it purely for their own advancement. I feel incredibly lucky that I just happened to get into guns before this happened, so that I already have a handgun.
Don't give up, though. The political pendulum is always swinging, and these clowns have had the reigns for seven years now. Their time is almost up. When the Conservatives retake power, we can have them repeal this, just like we repealed registration. You might have to wait longer than you should, but I'm confident you haven't lost your chance forever.
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Jun 11 '22
political pendulum is always swinging
Something always forgotten by any current sitting government.
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u/MycologyStuff Jun 07 '22
When will we know if they vote on the Bill today or not? Is there a way to follow what's going on in the house of commons? My transfer will probably go through in the next day or two, sure hope nothing happens today.
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u/MajorCocknBalls Jun 07 '22
The SECU meeting is over. It ain't happening today.
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u/MycologyStuff Jun 07 '22
Wooo! Thanks for the good news 😁 Now if it can just go ahead and never happen, that'd be just great.
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u/MycologyStuff Jun 08 '22
Transfer timeline update for anyone who's interested. Bought a Smith and Wesson M&P 2.0 from Cabelas a week ago today, first restricted. Just received my transfer by email. Gonna pick it up tomorrow! I'm in BC
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u/KnockedOuttaThePark Jun 08 '22
Can someone link me to the source for "Canadian gun owners commit crimes at half the rate of the general population?" I want it as a source for a letter to my MP.
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u/DarseZ Jun 08 '22 edited Jun 08 '22
If you want to see someone's eyes glass over, throw stats and links at them.
Recommend just saying something like this, keeping the message short, non-lecturey and friendly:
Because of the Canadian firearms licensing system, the Canadian firearms community is heavily vetted for both mental health and criminal background. In fact, as a demographic, licensed firearms owners have a crime rate much lower than the average population. Because legal issues can mean losing one's license, there's a strong incentive among licensed owners to maintain good standing in the community.
So many pro-firearms folks corner people and yell stats at them, it's a tired old tactic that doesn't help the cause.
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Jun 10 '22
Liberals dismiss Conservative offer to quickly pass parts of the government’s gun-crime bill
Conservative MP and public-safety critic Rachel Dancho moved a motion Thursday afternoon seeking unanimous consent to break up Bill C-21 into two parts, by hiving out measures that have “broad” support from the remaining provisions that are more divisive. The short motion does not detail all of the sections that the Conservatives would support, but mentions “curbing domestic violence and tackling the flow of guns over the Canada-U.S. border” as examples.
The Conservatives also raised the idea during Thursday’s Question Period, but Deputy Prime Minister Chrystia Freeland brushed off the offer as “posturing” and said the government was not interested.
“We will never water down our measures on gun control,” she said. “I’ll tell you what is entirely insincere: The Conservatives’ fake concern for Canadians who are victims of gun violence.”
After her motion was rejected, Ms. Dancho issued a statement accusing the Liberals of “selfish” political theatre: “It is clear the Trudeau government cares more about headlines and demonizing Canada’s sport shooters than keeping our communities safe from gun violence,” she said.
I think this is as much a confirmation as possible that there is no chance any amendments will be made in the House. The Senate or a snap election is our last hope for this bill.
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u/throwa37 Jun 10 '22
Good for the Conservatives for attempting this, but of course the Liberals were never going to go for it. Even leaving aside the fact that this is their prized wedge issue, no major party is going to allow another one to essentially hijack their big important bill and pick and choose the parts they like.
The fact that apparently only the Liberals voted against this motion means this was a good hit to their optics, though. Not that it counts for much all things considered, but it does show them to be nakedly self-interested with this legislation.
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u/drain-angel BC Jun 07 '22 edited Jun 07 '22
I wonder why accessibility is seldom discussed when it comes to outreach? When I was working on getting my PAL (2020), I didn't know anyone with guns and I was lucky to convince my friend to go to a range about 30 minutes away with drop-in & rentals. I had my PAL booked about a week and a half out for $200, and there are plenty of cheap range memberships around Vancouver especially if you are young (Student) that are always taking members, and even then some are pretty dirt cheap alongside with crown land being a little far but not that much.
But recently I've been helping a buddy of mine in the GTA try to get his PAL. And it's like a completely different country in terms of shooting "accessibility". $400~ for a CFSC/CFRSC, classes booked out months in advance, no walk-in ranges with rentals for unlicensed shooters within 2 hours of him, and eye-watering prices for range memberships, that is, if you can find one that would accept you into their months-long waitlist or membership lottery. (GTA shooters feel free to correct me if I'm being hyperbolic or wrong).
Why isn't this a bigger part of the conversation? How can people who are interested in guns even get to try them out besides driving (and that's assuming if they have a car) a really stupid distance to find a range that has rentals near population cores? Like I thought having to find a friend to shoot guns with at a range supervised for the first time was silly, but this is on a whole other level.
Maybe the CCFR or ranges or us can start offering volunteered supervised shooting and get EVERYONE interested to break down some of these barriers? And is the GTA the only population core with these issues?
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u/WhatAShame8 Jun 07 '22
I’m in Ontario and it really is as bad as you describe it. I have to drive hours to go shooting, and with gas prices it’s easily $100+ in fuel costs and 5+ hours of driving time to and from the range. I blame Toronto culture too, it’s the reason all the gun clubs got banned in the GTA region like 30 years ago. You legally cant have a shooting range in the GTA because of the dumb laws they passed. But no worries, you can have a gang shooting every other week or so.
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u/Apples_and_Overtones Your feet suck and so do you Jun 07 '22
If I'm not mistaken or misremembering, there was a plan to shutter a lot of ranges/gun shops in the Toronto area as part of some sort of "safety" movement or something. I think that happened to some extent (again, IIRC (I'm not from the area)) so that could be partially why accessibility in that area sucks.
Obviously, that of course had great impact (read: zero) on crime in the region.
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u/MajorCocknBalls Jun 07 '22
They banned handgun sales inside the city and then grandfathered the only store in the city that sold handguns. Fucking politicians just jerking themselves off.
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u/RaHarmakis Jun 07 '22
there was a plan to shutter a lot of ranges/gun shops in the Toronto area as part of some sort of "safety" movement or something.
Works about as well as combating Street Racing by closing race tracks, and banning high end Ferrari Hyper Cars.
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u/huntcamp Jun 08 '22
Anyone watch this documentary yet? These clips make it seem interesting.
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CehGMwBsAuG/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
I wish I could quote Marco’s statements, because I feel like he is blatantly lying. Like how is it legal for a politician to publicly lie to this degree. We need a bill to start charging dishonest politicians (every party included)
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u/TechnologyReady Radical Centrist Jun 08 '22
Yeah, the original video made the rounds a year ago when Mendecino was promoted to the position of Minister of Public Safety, and we were all trying to figure out who he was.
Many viewed it, and said he seemed reasonable compared to Bill Blair.
I watched it, and instantly saw the trouble. He clearly had a pathological aversion to guns, even before it became politically important for him to be so. He refused to even touch a gun, with a a friend, at a gun range, after safety training, etc. This is irrational, and reveals a deep seated emotional aversion to an inanimate object.
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u/huntcamp Jun 08 '22 edited Jun 08 '22
Yeah he looks a bit nervy to me. His mannerisms and demeanour make me believe something is off.
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u/TechnologyReady Radical Centrist Jun 08 '22
If you're speaking specifically on the range day, IMO, that's just normal behavior for a Canadian anti-gunner. I've seen it many times before. That used to be me. It is still most of the people I know.
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Jun 08 '22
They can't be more right. I grew up in the East part of Montreal and that's exactly the same problem. I can even pinpoint 3 or 4 specific streets where they can work with social workers and the police 24/7 to improve the life the these young kids and cut by half the crime in Montreal. First thing to adress is the role of these young men in our society not just their their communittee. Give them hope by promoting education, craftmanship, skills, passion or even fate. If not, they will gravitate by default around gang culture by the lack of inspiration. The pattern come from our US neighbour and were not the same on that level. Demographic disparity and segragation is something I feel the most when I visit cities in the US but here its different. We can improve life of everyone by giving a chance to the one who need more. And, yep guns smuggling add salt to the injuries. Please correct the bill by giving some slack to the legal gun owners and increase penality lot more for gun smuggling.
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Jun 08 '22 edited Jun 08 '22
This is more inline with what I expected of the Bloc
Edit: I still think the Bloc vote in favour of the bill when that happens and I think they vote in favour of the regulation whenever it comes up at committee. Although I do think favourable amendments are possible, especially if the Senate is the one who makes the changes.
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u/bcbuddy Jun 09 '22
They're absolutely coming for bolt action rifles next...
https://twitter.com/Polysesouvient/status/1534567339341099009?t=UOQaC1o1IWJF3V2B3C0yug&s=19
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u/Doctor_Dabmeister Jun 09 '22
The ultimate goal of anti-gun groups like Poly is to ban all private ownership of guns even for hunting purposes. They only begrudgingly tolerate guns as hunting tools because hunting with guns is still seen as socially acceptable by most Canadians. If there is a point in the future where hunting is no longer tolerated, they will absolutely push to ban your stereotypical hunting rifle.
Make no mistake, groups like Poly will not stop at handguns or scary black rifles. They hold their anti-gun beliefs as if it were a religion
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u/floydsmoot Jun 09 '22
ban all private ownership of guns
Allan Rock said that years ago. I can see some sort of central storage for anyone who wants to hunt (and only a certain number of cartridges per year)
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Jun 09 '22
They specified "military" so does that mean they want to ban the Enfields, Mausers, Ross rifle, etc.
I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but holy fuck, HOW DOES NO ONE ELSE SEE THEY JUST WANT TO GET RID OF GUN OWNERSHIP!
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Jun 09 '22
Even the 10/22 would be banned as it's used by the Israeli army. Fun fact they use it as a less than lethal riot control device
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u/roguemenace Jun 09 '22
They have since reclassified it as a lethal weapon and basically stopped using it because it kept killing people.
Turns out even with a .22 shooting people in the legs isn't great for their health, never mind when you miss and it hits higher.
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Jun 09 '22
can some just shut their twitter down and their entire platform lol, these dudes spouting the biggest nonsense
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u/SadPepe67 Jun 09 '22
I couldn’t read more than 4-5 of their tweets. Pure ignorance and they all act like they’re in a cult. They clearly can’t handle the truth and hide behind « guns can kill people = guns bad ». Banning handguns and scary black rifles won’t change anything. They’ll then start protesting to ban all centerfire rifle? Shotguns? Then when the gun crime % doesn’t drop, ban rimfire rifles? What are they going to say when every law abiding Canadian citizens won’t have access to firearms anymore and yet, gun crime still very present and maybe even on the rise? Will they finally protest against actual criminals and murderers?
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Jun 09 '22
The Bloc has solidified their messaging and seemingly back tracked from that original members comments
The MP says specifically that "C-21 isn't a bad bill". The Bloc don't care that it targets legal owners, in fact they like it. What they are looking for is a list of known gangs in Canada. While this may be a good thing, they are absolutely not on our side.
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Jun 11 '22
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u/improbablydrunknlw Anyone got Mike from Canmores number? Jun 11 '22
Odly positive though, zero attempt at demonization.
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u/Apples_and_Overtones Your feet suck and so do you Jun 11 '22
Personally I've always viewed Maclean's as fairly objective, as least in firearm related matters.
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Jun 10 '22
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Jun 10 '22
Give an inch, they take a mile. Gun control was and will never be about safety. So to answer your question, high odds if this community keeps capitulating and continues to yell about sports shooting.
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u/The_Phaedron Bambi go bye bye. Jun 10 '22
They’re talking bolt guns now
Oh gods.
This is plausible, but I'd like to see the source all the same.
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Jun 10 '22
If there is any ban on manual action arms it will be in the form of a feature ban. The government has already pushed the "high power rifle" ban with the May 2020 OIC.
They will be very careful in their approach to this though. The media is already questioning them on why a handgun ban is anything but an attack on legal owners. If they start banning manual action firearms they will lose all media support.
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u/SecureNarwhal Jun 06 '22
preaching to the choir here but the wsj editorial board pointing out Trudeau's gun legislation is more of a response to American gun crime than Canadian gun crime, and they also point out how Canadian governments in general like to respond to things that happen in America
I couldn't read the whole article though due to a paywall
(and my comment on this is that Canadians identify themselves as being better than Americans so it doesn't matter if we already have strong gun laws, as long as we keep one upping the Americans, then most Canadians will be happy)
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Jun 06 '22
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u/drain-angel BC Jun 07 '22
Insecurity of Americanism is a core part of the modern Canadian identity. I mean, top posts in this thread is someone doing literally just that.
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u/floydsmoot Jun 06 '22
"The Liberals’ new gun control bill, C-21, doesn’t even need to be passed into law to achieve its desired ends. That’s because Liberal firearms policy is not about reducing crime, but firing up the party’s left-wing base and forcing Conservatives to take a stand against gun control. It’s performative political theatre at its finest."
NP View: Liberal handgun 'freeze' all about generating outrage:
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/np-view-liberal-handgun-freeze-all-about-generating-outrage
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Jun 06 '22
Gunpost had 1700 handguns up for sale last night, today its at 331. All of the listings that had been marked for sold after the first couple days are gone now.
It's still crazy seeing all of the "out of stock" and "sold" signs.
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Jun 09 '22
With the CPC willing to stop the committee from adopting the regulation proposal it appears more and more certain our doom date is October 4th.
With that in mind I wouldn't be surprised if stores restock some handguns during the summer. I highly doubt they wouldn't be able to clear their stock over 3 months.
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Jun 06 '22 edited Jun 07 '22
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u/throwa37 Jun 07 '22
It is impossible to argue against regulation on the basis of sporting. “People are dying” is very very hard to challenge with “guns are fun and a neat hobby.”
This. Bingo. Exactly. There is no way around it.
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u/TechnologyReady Radical Centrist Jun 07 '22
Great post. I agree that promoting shooting sports as a fun, family oriented activity, is a futile effort. There is zero chance you will get them to see it that way. And even if you could, as you say, that argument is easily shot down by "but fun hobbies cannot justify the possession of firearms that can cause such harm".
But I disagree that you have a successful argument for "but we have a right to defend ourselves". You'll never win that argument either. I have seen woke-libs actually argue that we do NOT have the right to defend ourselves, that our duty is to turn the other cheek, sacrifice ourselves on the alter of non-violence. More moderate libs will argue that your duty is to call the police and wait. Or, that it's just a fantasy to think you could successfully use a gun to defend yourself when the chips are down in any case. Or that it's a false concern in the first place because the odds that you are a victim of violent crime is incredibly low anyway.
I agree with /u/CalibreMag that the focus needs to be squarely on the fact that these gun bans are a wasteful use of resources, and a distraction from the real problem. This is the dispassionate argument, that is not easily defeatable by moralistic arguments. I've used this argument myself, which is often responded to by "Yes, well, the government can do more than one thing at once!" However, as time passes, and other problems build up, this argument becomes harder and harder to make. This government continues to ignore real problems it should be solving, and focusing only on these partisan political issues.
I would also make the argument that we should have the right to defend ourselves. The right of self-defence is a human right that is fundamentally rooted in core concepts of humanity. It isn't explicitly enshrined in our laws, but it doesn't need to be, because it's a fundamental human right above that of any state's ability to legislate. It cannot be restricted. I think we can achieve the acceptance of this among moderates, because it's imminently reasonable. Once we have achieved that bridgehead of logic, then we can press for the legal ability to plan for our own self-defence. First, in our own homes. Maybe long after that, we could talk about the ability to plan for our self-defence in public. But that's a long way off. I don't see us succeeding there unless the public viewed it as true, that widespread random public violence is rampant and the police are not capable of defending us. We may get there, with the way things are going.
Because elsewhere you stated something that's not true, about legally being allowed to use weapons to protect yourself. It's not clear cut, at all.
We are legally allowed to possess weapons. But we are not allowed to possess weapons for reasons contrary to the public peace. And a series of court rulings have defined that contrary to the public peace means in preparation to defend yourself in public. Strangely, only criminals are allowed to carry weapons for self defence, because they can't rely on the police. The rest of us are expected to rely on the police (or negotiate with our attackers, or run away).
So, you're not allowed to prepare for your self defence by possessing weapons. But you are allowed to use them, if you should be so lucky to find yourself in possession of them when you are attacked. It's a subtle but very important distinction.
It seems unlikely that we would win the hearts and minds of the general population, about the legal right to prepare for self defence, until and unless the general population feels that things have really gone to hell. And clearly, they are not in that mindframe.
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u/knine71551 Jun 07 '22
Fingers crossed that so far everything for "today" is just a rumor
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u/xKYLx on Jun 08 '22
Wow it was like there were more important issues going on in Canada right now other than gun control. Too busy a schedule to get to the stupid bill
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Jun 12 '22
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u/throwa37 Jun 12 '22
1) Lots of people don't realize that they need something until, well, they need it. Why the blind spot exists particularly for guns in this country, I don't know. It isn't like we have a shortage of urban or rural crime, or news stories about home invasions. Maybe people don't take things outside of their bubble seriously. Maybe it's a twisted form of nationalism, a blind refusal to accept that guns are useful like the "dirty Americans" do. Maybe they're just plain stupid.
2) It's an easy way to shut down debate without having to think.
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Jun 11 '22
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u/WhoaUhThray Jun 11 '22
Realistically I only have my fingers crossed for airsoft not being banned. If anything's going to be conceded, I feel like that would be it. Otherwise I just hope the magazine regs aren't too insane.
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u/SurtseyHuginn Jun 10 '22
Everyone here should save and share this 50s video.
As I think a great way to sway the public opinion on gun control policies is to actually let the police do the talking as they are seen as knowledgeable on that matter by the population. Also we are often seen as gun nuts, rednecks so it's only an uphill battle from here.
That's why, to me, this video is just perfect to convey a simple but powerful message.
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Jun 10 '22
Police and the majority of gun owners have been repeating that argument for literally years and the government / general public still don't care. You do realize that right?
This subreddit especially has been leaning hard into using rational arguments to oppose irrational people.
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u/Apples_and_Overtones Your feet suck and so do you Jun 10 '22
Well the general opinion of police nowadays (ALSO in part from importing American news/issues) is "ACAB" so their opinion matters just as much as ours do to hardcore Liberal types, which is not at all.
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Jun 11 '22
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u/Apples_and_Overtones Your feet suck and so do you Jun 11 '22
Nobody needs to drink or smoke, and either of those things have caused more deaths than gun violence. It's just not as violent (read: scary) and is impractical and more difficult to press as a wedge issue so guns it is!
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Jun 10 '22
And as a counterpoint the hardcore liberal types simp for any and all authority that tells them what to do. Even if they do say ACAB, they will still fall in line.
Whether or not they want to admit it these hardcore libs still consider what the police say
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Jun 06 '22 edited Jun 07 '22
Our favorite firearms organizations aren't serving us well.
They have been happily taking everyone's money to "fight the OIC", etc. and spitting back messaging that makes their supporters happy, and not moving the needle at all.
Here's the thing: Our sport exists at the pleasure of the electorate. Firearms will never be a 'right'. No government will ever implement that. We borrow a lot of tone from our friends to the south, but it's really the worst thing to do, given that they have the 2A.
If we really want to expand the tent, we need to develop a Canadian-style message to reach the people that matter in Canada.
Because of Canada's situation, members of firearms advocacy groups don't matter much. Messaging that appeals to them, but falls flat with everyone else, achieves nothing.
Who DOES matter? The average urbanite in Toronto, Vancouver, Ottawa, Calgary, Montreal.
We need to shift our messaging to appeal to these folks. Primarily, we need to communicate that they will see friendly/familiar faces at the range on a Saturday afternoon. That the range is for them. The firearms community, in short, needs to be adopted by urbanites.
It will feel a bit like that underground band you always liked, that now has all these new fans who you don't think understand or care about the history. It will push away some people. It will change in unexpected ways. But that's the only path forward.
How do we achieve this? We need to:
-Get off our high horse. We're not 'smart' and opponents to our interests aren't 'stupid'. We all have emotions and bias.
-Media train ourselves. Understand that it's not a 'facts game'...it's a 'perception game'.
-The messaging and tone of our firearms advocacy organizations are are way off the mark. We need to demand more from them...or create a new organization.
-Adopt and reflect the views and language of urban Canada. They're the future.
-Forget talking about a 2A style implementation in Canadian law. It's a waste of resources and will push us further away from the other goals stated here.
-Clearly and openly denounce those who violate firearms laws or threaten violence with firearms. This has to be the topline priority, in bold. Canadians are awash in news of American mass shootings and we need to be in front of those stories...not pretending they don't exist. We need to strongly and overtly differentiate ourselves from the US so that laypeople understand that Canada is a very different place than the US. Casual browsers of all our media need to get an open and inviting tone from our communication.
-Shift the outward-facing narrative from lecturing, adversarial tone to inclusivity and invitation. We don't need to "educate" people....we need to welcome them.
I wish I could half bold, don't mean to yell. But wanted to highlight the key takeaways.
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u/throwa37 Jun 06 '22
What you're saying, whether you intend to or not, is that we should accept that gun ownership in this country is going to be restricted to "hunting appropriate" long guns.
I hate to be the bearer of shit news here, but you will never convince the average urbanite that handguns and AR-15s should be available for, essentially, shits and giggles. It's a total non-starter. The overwhelming majority of them are against handgun ownership - hell, even most gun owners are for the assault weapons ban.
The reason that people are doing the whole 2A thing is that unless we make inroads in establishing the importance of gun ownership beyond frivolous sports, gun ownership as we knew it in this country is over, period. The idea of tailoring a "Canadian message" that's accepted by the urban population, where modern military rifles are toys, is a fantasy.
I'm not saying it'll be easy, but we either make this about rights, or we get used to owning nothing but bolt actions. This post is obviously well intentioned, but it's completely off the mark.
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u/yummybunnybear Jun 06 '22
Firearm rights organizations, ranges and gun stores need to do a better job advertising on video game websites. That's where you find the future of urban firearm enthusiasts. I can confirm that every single hardcore gamer has expressed a positive view toward firearms to me. Maybe they think it's cool to play with the actual guns they see onscreen. Maybe they can relate to firearm owners because gamers too are often demonized whenever violent incidents happen.
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u/yummybunnybear Jun 06 '22
My family took a teen daughter of a family friend to the range for her first time. She's totally urban in terms of style and music and everything. She picked up the Kriss Vector and said "wooow it's the Fortnite SMG!!!" And she had a blast. I had no clue so I googled it and there is an SMG that looks just like the Vector. That's the future right there.
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Jun 06 '22 edited Jun 06 '22
The average urbanite? I don't know where you're situated but the people I've talked to are open to gun ownership. Only caveat being is that they don't know much about our laws. I'm talking with men aged 18-24 (minority or white) day in day out and most wish the had a piece on them 24/7. It's the soccer mom Karens, younger college aged women and Twitter users who decide to step out of their house that are so anti-gun. These people usually have their minds made up so even more appeasement isn't going to work. Why are Redditors so fascinated with appeasement when that's the only method being used for over 30 years?
We need to get off our high horse - we're not smart, and our opponents aren't dumb
First of all yeah we have a solid ground to argue from. Not taking ourselves seriously literally won't do us favors lol. Speak for yourself
Optics is what matters
Yup. Sports shooting is a failed angle. Violent crime in Vancouver and Toronto are still going up. Just the other night two or three people got shot up in Toronto. So much for "keeping Canadians safe". Let's call the police and have them set up a crime scene around our dead bodies, not like they're stretched thin enough though!
we need to create a new gun rights organization if the current ones don't represent us
There's already so many. CCFR has the biggest momentum and right now we need one big movement. Gun owners calling for more OICs is enough of a problem. That needs to be fixed first.
adopt and try to incorporate urban language into the gun community
As I've already said, most guys around the 18-24 range are open to gun ownership. Soccer moms, young women, Twitter users are so vehemently anti gun for a variety of reasons.
Openly condemn violence within our communities and disassociate from people who advocate to use guns for violence
No shit? But being "in front" of American stories is the exact reason why we're silent about it. It only gives anti gunners fuel to say "Look! They're defending and associating with Americans! That means they're bad!" Who gives a fuck about them. We're not them, they're not us.
E: Also this is a double edged sword. If we back ourselves into a corner (again), we'd be arguing ourselves away from being able to use guns for self defence. Revolution? Obviously denounce that. Stupid as fuck. Self defence, sustainment and responsibility? That's the type of violence we should be arguing for.
We need to be welcoming and inclusive
We already are. I don't know what you're trying to get at with that but firearms ownership is inherently a male dominated thing, like tuner car culture or tinkering with technology. Lecturing people is unfortunately the corner we've been backed into because of constant pandering and appeasement. I can't believe I have to say this, but welcoming more gun owners who have the same mentality towards gun ownership are who we should be welcoming first and foremost.
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u/fltlns Jun 06 '22
If I had the money I'd love to start or someone start some sort of program to get minorities and lgbtq+ folk into the shooting sports, bring them out show them a good, inclusive time, free of charge. Point them in the direction of their pal, maybe even pay for it if that's not illegal. Maybe make it a non profit that gives back to indigenous reserves where sustenance hunting is prominent or with water issues. Start it with a high presence mostly in swing ridings in ontario. Grow the sport among other demographics and try to shed the silly idea its all rich white dudes and farmers.
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u/jbon87 Jun 10 '22
My buddys and i have been talk and we suspect that all the gun ban of late (2020 oic and now the hand gun freeze) are due to the liberals fears of the future. And in particular order
Climate change
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-financial-system-column-don-pittis-1.6481496
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canadians-shopping-rising-food-costs-1.6483250
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/food-cost-survey-1.6478695
With the above and the rise of inflation
I think this is the liberals fear of history repeating
itself https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_Crisis
Just my 2 cents
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u/Flat-Dark-Earth Big Bore Specialist Jun 12 '22
The Liberals are the main reason why Canadians fear the future of this Country.
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Jun 10 '22
That would make sense but the October Crisis isn't related at all. That was an entirely different situation which is more likely to happen in Alberta these days, it wasn't economic it was cultural. Secondly the flaw of democracy is that no government is really planning for the long term. Governments plan short term as in 5 ish years. The sole goal of the Liberal Party is reelection. Taking firearms helps with that. It's not some conspiracy thing it really is that simple. They want to win the next election not plan for something 30 years away
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u/OddCanadian Jun 10 '22
Between climate change and the economy there's a non insignificant chance that things get considerably worse for most people in the not too distant future.
When people suffer enough they tend to take it out on their leadership.
If you had money and power, and/or had been complicit (or culpable) for the situation getting so shite, you probably wouldn't want the masses armed either.
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u/doubleapplewcoconut Jun 10 '22
I am going to hard disagree with you on this, respectfully. Executing to some type of grand vision around disarming the population to prevent an uprising isnt consistent with reality, the liberal government is concerned about securing votes in the 905 and generating a wedge issue that paints the conservatives like american republicans, and that is it.
Disarmament wouldnt matter anyways. I know the anti-gun crowd in the US claims an ar15 wont mean anything if the military turns on the civilians but the fact is an uprising population would overturn the government with sticks and stones, US included.
I do agree guns is a smoke screen, as is a lot of politics. But the possibility of a societal meltdown like blood in the streets-bad in Canada is in my view nearly zero. World war III will break out way before that as inflation will starve poorer, more powerful countries than us first, and for the record that isnt very likely (but not zero).
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u/NationalAnthemofUSSR Jun 10 '22 edited Jun 10 '22
I agree. The class war between the have and have nots scares them. Housing/food/gas all going through the roof. The gun stuff is one of the many smoke screens and political theatre to blind the masses from the real issues.
The class divide was evident during the truckers convoy. Especially the donation amounts, it showed the discontent of people against either society or the government. They're also probably worried if that event or future events were to go violent, they wouldn't be able to control it.
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u/Playdohmonster95 Jun 06 '22
Just got the transfer email from the CFO about 2 handguns I bought last week on Tuesday. BC is pretty quick.
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u/MallDeep4163 Jun 10 '22
Not trying to complain, but rather looking for feedback from other members of the community re. the CFP phone queue - is anyone actually getting through to a human on the non-business line? I realize that it's taking forever to get through (eg and not just get the "we're sorry we can't answer your call" message), but at least for me, once I finally get into the hold queue, the system just hangs up on me after I've been waiting on hold for anywhere from 2-20 mins.
To be clear: in the last < 2 days I've made ~ 196 calls, of those I actually got into the on-hold queue MAYBE 20 times... and *every single time* I get through to the hold queue it eventually just drops my call and I have to start over again.
ANYBODY making it through to the hold queue actually speak to a human eventually, or is this futile without a business license?
EDIT: specifically talking about the "transfer unit" to start/finish a Restricted transfer... ie 1-4-2
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u/floydsmoot Jun 10 '22
Not that I care since a lot of people think he made the CPC lose the election, but where's Bernier been hiding lately. Haven't heard a peep from him about the gun law proposal (or about anything else) lately.
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Jun 10 '22
He's still travelling around Canada and making the occasional post on social media. He's been quiet because of PP. His last smear on PP for being silent about a mandate vote went nowhere - PP clarified it was glitch and then introduced an anti mandate bill a few weeks after.
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u/Doctor_Dabmeister Jun 06 '22
I think the Liberals are now just speedrunning trying to stop the growth of legal gun owners in Canada. We legal gun owners are also quite unfairly stigmatized by many Canadians, especially the ones living in cities like Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, and also their surrounding suburbs (basically the people who have the most say in an election). Here are my thoughts on what should be done in order to help change our public perception. u/Kerfaf also posted some good points about winning over urban Canadians and not copying the strategies of 2A activists in the US so please give their comment a read too.
We as individuals should do our best to have good faith conversations about guns with trusted friends and family, especially the anti-guns ones. We should mainly focus on activities like target shooting and hunting. We can also correct any common misconceptions they bring up about firearms in Canada. Sometimes, it may be best to just offer to take your anti-gun friends/family to a range or Crown Land. Giving them 20 minutes to plink with a .22 rifle may do more to change their mind about guns than debating them for 2 hours. We must also have realistic expectations though, one range trip or discussion about guns will not completely change their mind but it will get them thinking that legal gun owners are not as bad as society would like them to believe.
When discussing guns with friends/family, I would avoid politics initially but if it does come up, we shouldn't resort to name calling when it comes to the Liberals or any anti-gun groups. If you have to bring up Trudeau, just call him Trudeau, if you have to bring up the Liberal Party, just say the Liberals. As a general rule, don't use any language US Republicans use to refer to their political opponents. Also on the topic of the US, we should distance ourselves as much as we can from the US gun rights movement, especially the Republican ones. Much of Canada is rightfully disgusted with the Republican party. Associating ourselves with them will only hurt us in the long run. US gun rights mainly focuses on guns as a self-defense tool, I don't think most Canadians are comfortable with that idea yet.
I think Canadians deserve better firearm advocacy groups. I've only had an RPAL for 3 years and live in Ontario so please correct me if I'm wrong on certain things. I think our current advocacy groups have spent too much time preaching to the choir and not enough with public outreach. Have they advertised any sort of public outreach or events before the May 2020 OIC? Even after the OIC, all I remember they did was organize a small protest and they organized the Range Day this past weekend but barely any ranges in my area was participating. Do y'all wonder what they're doing with your donations? Some of the groups could benefit from a change in senior leadership too...
Lastly I want to bring up the Conservative Party. Even as a left-wing Canadian who has voted NDP, I've accepted the fact that I may have to vote CPC if I don't want to see my guns confiscated or "bought back" for pennies. This sucks a lot for me personally since I literally only agree with the CPC on the topic of guns.
The CPC and their voters need to realize that they must become more socially progressive, even more than O'Toole, if they want a chance at forming government in the present day. The CPC may be more socially progressive than they were 15 years ago or compared to US Republicans (the bar is so low when is comes to the Republican party it might as well be on the ground) but I'd say thats not enough for most Canadians. Lets go with the example of abortion which has many Canadians worried due to whats happening in the US. Its not enough for CPC leaders to be pro-choice, they should at the very least prevent their MPs from tabling any bills which may restrict abortion. Anti-abortion groups almost never seem to endorse Liberal or NDP MPs. Being condemned by anti-abortion groups should be seen as a badge of honour.
Even if the CPC does win the next election, there is a high likelihood it will be a minority government. I can't see the Liberals and CPC working together so they would need to form alliances with parties even more left to get a chance at passing anything. I remember Singh saying that he absolutely will not work with Scheer if he won a minority government but didn't say the same about O'Toole.
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Jun 06 '22
We have been focusing on target shooting and hunting since forever. Me and a handful of other users keep trying to hammer in this point that it doesn't work yet people still keep insisting on it. It's been 30+ years of sports shooting and hunting - give it a rest.
Guns are inherently political so trying to dodge it for the sake of courtesy is beating around the bush. I get your point but it doesn't work.
The CCFR is currently swamped with legal challenges. I wonder where my money is going but until we have another group equivalent to the Firearms Policy Coalition or GOA, the CCFR and NFA are the best options we have.
No offence but the rest of this post seems like thinly veiled cope so you can try and persuade yourself to vote CPC and save your guns. I've said it before I don't understand this fascination to move the CPC centre left just so people can feel "ok" to vote for them. If the thought of checking an X beside the federal CPC MP is enough to give you chills I highly suggest you get off the internet and stop being terminally online.
Also what is this fascination with abortion? It's been done and over with. No one gives a shit about it.
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u/stealthy_1 Jun 06 '22
I was just thinking that the number of posts on this sub recently about the legal side of reporting (mental health, background check, safety concerns, etc).
I hope we can compile or sticky these or give a permalink to these like CGN or something informative. These are probably issues that are common but aren’t things we can conveniently ask quickly about from the authorities. Experience helps here, especially on a pseudo-anonymous basis, with proper referrals to legal/medical advice.
Secondly, I just want to point out that as a community, even with issues like these, that so many of the properly licensed are willing to ask the right questions and follow the law that it should be at least shown as such to the public sees that as owners, we are people and a community first who do have real world problems and will put the extra effort to follow the legal requirements if something comes up.
Thoughts?
TL;DR: seen a number of posts asking about health/safety concerns, show the public that PAL holders are people first and concerned citizens who follow the law and go the extra step already. Especially given the targeting by Bill proposals and OICs.
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u/Flat-Dark-Earth Big Bore Specialist Jun 07 '22 edited Jun 07 '22
Well its now June 7th, have we had any further announcements?
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u/last_to_know Jun 07 '22
Has anyone in BC been able to get through to CFO? Trying to do a private transfer for the last like 4 business days but just can't get through. If they're not taking calls, is that not a de facto ban on all restricted transfers?
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u/ivegotabigonetucked Jun 09 '22
So for everyone ahead of the curve and got what they wanted before May 18 and the handgun things came up, what's next other than magazines?
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Jun 09 '22
There are 2 things that are set to come but we don't know exactly what they ential.
- Magazine law changes
- More rifles being banned
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u/throwa37 Jun 09 '22
Specifically, going by Mendicino's comments that the ban will be "comprehensive" and prevent new "assault weapons" coming to market, I strongly suspect that it will be a modification to the classification system to finally define what constitutes an assault weapon in law - like a feature ban, like they have in some US states. I think it's unlikely that it will just be another list of models.
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u/MasterMirr0r al Jun 09 '22
I have a friend who insists the stats show that the vast majority of mass shootings in Canada are from legal firearms.. this sounds suspect, to say the least. What are the actual stats?
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Jun 09 '22
That stat may not be entirely in inaccurate if they are only talking about the random public mass shooting. However, it is an incredibly misleading stat because they are incredibly rare in Canada.
Since 2000 there have only been 2 public mass shooting. Since 1989 there have been 5.
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Jun 10 '22
What do you define as a "public mass shooting" because pretty sure there's more then two. For example; Mayerthrope (this one may or may not meet the definition of public), Moncton, Dawson College (not many dead but a lot were injuried), Quebec City Mosque, and Nova Scotia. That's 5 since 2000, plus a few others like the guy who shot up parliament with a lever gun but those were limited in scale.
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Jun 09 '22
I don't have stats on me but that's 100% bullshit. Someone else can give you the raw data but afaik over 80% of gun crime in Canada is committed with illegal / smuggled handguns. The rest are stolen.
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u/Whole_Sound_9538 Jun 10 '22
Licensed gun owners in Canada are 4x LESS likely to commit ANY crimes (including homicide) than the general public.
So statistically speaking, your friend is a lot more likely to go out and kill someone than you are.
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u/Afrozendouche Jun 10 '22
You have an uniniformed/misinformed friend. Tell them you would love to see those stats that they say show it. The onus is on them to prove their claim, not you to disprove it. Not that that matters to an idealogue or a zealot...
The bottom line is they won't be able to find any stats supporting their conclusion without taking US data. And we are not the US.
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u/microwave2016 Jun 06 '22
Has anyone in BC gotten through to the cfo to start a transfer?? I actually think they’ve just shut down the office to keep people for buying anything privately
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u/Floodster93 Jun 07 '22
Does anyone know if the handgun freeze will effect restricted rifles such as the GHM9 in any way or just true handguns?
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u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Jun 07 '22
Just things listed as handguns in the FRT, for now, I believe.
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u/fucemanchukem Jun 10 '22
All the deletions and bans make me more uncomfortable about participating here. Not because I would get booted but because I don't think invalidating others to make a community seem less like the people opposed to you will use as ammo against you will help. It just emboldens those opposed to private ownership to take more away as they see less resistance. Never apologize. Never appear reasonable to their demands. All it's done is make things worse for everyone. I'm sick of it.
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u/BunchDependent2521 Jun 10 '22
Eh, the mods are super reasonable here.. it's not like you get insta-mercd for going against the groupthink, just don't outwardly say things illegal, the things that get the entire subreddit shutdown. Obv the mods/admins will act on certain comments.
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Jun 10 '22
Post anyways. The more people see that type of never apologize, never compromise attitude when it comes to idiotic gun laws only emboldens gun owners and the community as a whole. Anyone who doesn't like it probably wasn't as serious about gun culture anyways. It's been over 30 years of compromise for absolutely nothing.
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u/exploreddit Jun 06 '22
What political strategies could we push to cement our rights to own firearms in Canada? I wonder if pursuing property rights has a better chance of getting through the political system than a pure firearms approach.
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u/Flat-Dark-Earth Big Bore Specialist Jun 06 '22
Pushing for property rights would he a good start.
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u/TKB-059 bc Jun 06 '22
What political strategies could we push to cement our rights to own firearms in Canada
Unironically? The demise of confederation. Firearms are basically a nonissue out west.
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u/greasygreenbastard Jun 06 '22
rights
Big laughs. In all seriousness your (our) best bet for concrete rights is to have the current political system (ie the English system with the crown and whatnot) dismantled and replaced with an American style one. But barring a miracle or establishing a new country, that will never ever happen.
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u/throwa37 Jun 06 '22
Unfortunate blackpill. Even when the federal government went out of their way to create a bill of rights, they made sure to leave themselves plenty of escape clauses.
Asking for an established state to grant actual rights to it's citizens is asking it to act directly counter to it's own interests.
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u/devilish_kevin_bacon Jun 07 '22
did the bill have its second reading yet? Why is everyone mentioning June 7th as a day something will happen?
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u/CanadaGunsMod Jun 08 '22
All standalone posts complaining about CFP wait times/transfer times/license times will be deleted. Complain in here if you like but there will be no other posts allowed.