r/canadaguns • u/AutoModerator • Jun 06 '22

Weekly Politics Thread

Please post all your Politics or Ban-related ideas, initiatives, comments, suggestions, news articles, and recommendations in this thread. Unless new information is published in the media, recurring articles related to the gov'ts ***possible*** legislation are to be posted here. These threads will be weekly, until it's necessary for another per-week.

Previous politics threads can be found here. Previous threads can be found here.

We understand that politics is a touchy subject, and at times things can get heated. A reminder of the subreddit rules, when commenting, where subreddit users are expected to abide.

38 Upvotes

93% Upvoted

910 comments sorted by

View all comments

15

u/jbon87 Jun 10 '22

My buddys and i have been talk and we suspect that all the gun ban of late (2020 oic and now the hand gun freeze) are due to the liberals fears of the future. And in particular order

Climate change

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-financial-system-column-don-pittis-1.6481496

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canadians-shopping-rising-food-costs-1.6483250

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/food-cost-survey-1.6478695

With the above and the rise of inflation

I think this is the liberals fear of history repeating

itself https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_Crisis

Just my 2 cents

6

u/Flat-Dark-Earth Big Bore Specialist Jun 12 '22

The Liberals are the main reason why Canadians fear the future of this Country.

11

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '22

That would make sense but the October Crisis isn't related at all. That was an entirely different situation which is more likely to happen in Alberta these days, it wasn't economic it was cultural. Secondly the flaw of democracy is that no government is really planning for the long term. Governments plan short term as in 5 ish years. The sole goal of the Liberal Party is reelection. Taking firearms helps with that. It's not some conspiracy thing it really is that simple. They want to win the next election not plan for something 30 years away

4

u/jbon87 Jun 10 '22

I was using the October crisis as an example and liberly at that. And the next 5 years woth the global threat and foos crisis up comjng , it makes wense to me

10

u/OddCanadian Jun 10 '22

Between climate change and the economy there's a non insignificant chance that things get considerably worse for most people in the not too distant future.

When people suffer enough they tend to take it out on their leadership.

If you had money and power, and/or had been complicit (or culpable) for the situation getting so shite, you probably wouldn't want the masses armed either.

11

u/doubleapplewcoconut Jun 10 '22

I am going to hard disagree with you on this, respectfully. Executing to some type of grand vision around disarming the population to prevent an uprising isnt consistent with reality, the liberal government is concerned about securing votes in the 905 and generating a wedge issue that paints the conservatives like american republicans, and that is it.

Disarmament wouldnt matter anyways. I know the anti-gun crowd in the US claims an ar15 wont mean anything if the military turns on the civilians but the fact is an uprising population would overturn the government with sticks and stones, US included.

I do agree guns is a smoke screen, as is a lot of politics. But the possibility of a societal meltdown like blood in the streets-bad in Canada is in my view nearly zero. World war III will break out way before that as inflation will starve poorer, more powerful countries than us first, and for the record that isnt very likely (but not zero).

2

u/Happy-Firefighter-30 Jun 12 '22

but the fact is an uprising population would overturn the government with sticks and stones, US included.

No. Without basic weapons it'll be like Hong Kong.

13

u/NationalAnthemofUSSR Jun 10 '22 edited Jun 10 '22

I agree. The class war between the have and have nots scares them. Housing/food/gas all going through the roof. The gun stuff is one of the many smoke screens and political theatre to blind the masses from the real issues.

The class divide was evident during the truckers convoy. Especially the donation amounts, it showed the discontent of people against either society or the government. They're also probably worried if that event or future events were to go violent, they wouldn't be able to control it.

3

u/OxfordTheCat Jun 10 '22 edited Jun 10 '22

It's not some grand conspiracy, it's simple polling.

The public overwhelmingly supports the legislation. Support for the previous legislation was polling at like 70%, which is more consensus than basically anything on legislative agenda in the last twenty five years.

You'd have to introduce a motion for curing cancer or something to get more high profile public support. And before the "the public doesn't understand the laws, that's the only reason they support it" crowd sharpens their pencils: Number one, the public doesn't understand any legislation that gets passed, this isn't any different. And two, no, average Canadians aren't closet 2A supporters and wishing AR15s and handguns were more accessible than ever in Canada, even if every single person miraculously knew the nuances of the laws, they'd still be anathema to the average person.

It's not some greater civil unrest, WEF disarmament, UN world government nonsense de jour that the conspiracy idiots are peddling: Gun control legislation is popular in this country, and the AR15 espousing, plate carrier wearing, sheepdog/operator/guns to protect against the government/wish we had a 2A culture is despised by the average Canadian, especially in the big cities where it counts.

And especially given the pervasive and high profile issues in the United States, which are getting worse not better.

Guys like O'Leary that were in the early running for the CPC leadership the last time around were actively talking about getting rid of ARs. If there wasn't the massive public and political support for it, the legislation wouldn't exist.

Horses, not zebras.

10

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '22

overwhelmingly supports the legislation

Have you stepped outside of Ontario for more than an hour? I'm not going to get into the rest of that awful take but if you sincerely think that Canada is 60%+ comprised of duck-hunting-phobic, scared-shitless-over-guns urbanites and want nothing to do with them there isn't a point in trying to counter any of that.

-8

u/OxfordTheCat Jun 10 '22 edited Jun 10 '22

Have you stepped outside of this subreddit for more than an hour?

The collective zeal of yet another wave of 'I'm 20-something and just got my RPAL a year ago and now guns are my entire identity and the most important thing in my life' Redditors doesn't change the reality, or that 80% of Canadians live in urban areas and most want nothing to do with guns (or are indifferent at best).

12

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '22

[deleted]

5

u/throwa37 Jun 11 '22 edited Jun 11 '22

I'm not shedding any tears for them. If they want to remain ignorant and apathetic, they can deal with the consequences.

7

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '22 edited Jun 10 '22

I literally don't use Reddit other than to browse this board and to follow what legislation comes up. I'm not a redditor and I don't particularly care what the rest of this site thinks. Real life isn't Reddit.

E: and the average Redditor is so far up their own ass so any political leanings, opinions or hot takes that they have are far removed from reality.

E2: I've had my RPAL for years and urban Canada isn't the rest of Canada. It's just urban Canada. Collective zeal is literally the only thing that will save gun rights and gun culture in this country whether or not you want to admit it lol

4

u/CanadaGunsMod Jun 10 '22

It doesn't matter if urban Canada isn't the rest of Canada. Until there is voting reform, urban zones will drive policy.

Neither the Cons nor the Liberals support any kind of comprehensive election reform, because it allows them to hold majority governments without the majority of the vote. The NDP do, but I think if they ever won and got in a place of power to implement it, they wouldn't, because that would be how they got into power in the first place.

Both the major parties campaign to a 40% majority. Gun owners are roughly 17% of the voting base. I'd say fully half of those are die-hard conservatives, and the other half aren't single issue voters anyways. There is no political downside for either the Liberal or NDP parties to ignore or outright vilify gun owners.

5

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '22

I don't understand this contradictory view of urban Canada being both untouchable / unpersuadable or able to be reasoned with. Urban Canada isn't completely lost and me plus a handful of other users have evidence that's the case. GTA, Vancouver, wherever are going to have people that can't be reasoned with but they're a minority within a minority. There's a decent number of Canadians that are gun owners or are open to gun ownership which is why outreach is so important. Just giving up and saying "yeah they hate guns so it's over" is asinine. Zeal or whatever you want to call it is the only hope gun owners have to fight back against this idiotic government and its half assed legislation.

Is giving up the preferred method here? Or is this "urban Canada being so powerful" just cope to not try and change things?

You said it yourself. There's no downside or motive for the liberals to not villify and ostracize gun owners. So as I've said before, if you're actually serious about guns, don't vote liberal unless you want to be a temporary gun owner. I always see this single issue shit pop up time and time again. We're talking about guns lol. Any time I see similar replies such as this it's like the poster WANTS gun ownership to die out and just not give a shit.

0

u/CanadaGunsMod Jun 11 '22

Mate, I said nothing about giving up. I said that "the rest of Canada" isn't the problem or the focus, for any party. I'm saying they (the Cons and the Libs) don't care and they don't need to. Even the Conservatives pay lip service to firearms. I don't pretend for a second they'd bother to even table legislation until they needed to get a consecutive term.

11

u/throwa37 Jun 11 '22

the public doesn't understand any legislation that gets passed, this isn't any different

Sad indictment of democracy.

is despised by the average Canadian

You despise it, you've made that very clear. Most people are unaware of/indifferent to prepper/"tactical" culture. And either way, you already did a pretty good job of laying out the low bar set by the average Canadian.

If there wasn't the massive public and political support for it, the legislation wouldn't exist.

This part is straight bullshit. Unpopular legislation is introduced and passed all the time. You don't even have to look any farther than this government's online censorship bill, which was ripped apart in consultation - which just prompted them to hide the consultation results.

10

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '22

Swear to God it'd make debating a whole lot easier if users just admitted they don't want anything to do with actual gun culture and the paraphernalia that goes along with it, instead of hiding behind "the average Canadian"

10

u/throwa37 Jun 11 '22

Not to give you whiplash, and I agree with you 99%, but I'm not about gatekeeping what constitutes "actual" gun culture. Hunting, skeet shooting, and good old bolt action target practice are perfectly valid arms of gun culture in my book.

But I'm right alongside you in losing patience with people who hold the myopic view that the parts of gun culture they don't participate in or appreciate are acceptable sacrifices. And frankly, I couldn't give less of a shit what the average Canadian thinks. I'm going to keep funding and voting for the party that promises to safeguard my gun rights. Fortunately, that party is one of the Big Two. So the Liberals and the supporters of their gun control can choke on it. It's only a matter of time until we retake ground.

7

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '22

But that's the thing - either all aspects of gun culture are acceptable or none of it is. Trying to pick and choose for the sake of appearing friendly is alienating. Hunting, skeet, IPSC, they're all under gun culture. Not disagreeing with you.

9

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '22

[deleted]

5

u/throwa37 Jun 11 '22

out of a poll consisting of 0.002% of the population

Yeah, but that's how polls work. I wouldn't go there.

that's been accompanied by excessive fear mongering based entirely on U.S politics and law

This part is a good point.

It's also good to note that Canada is becoming more pro gun as time goes on. I wish I could source you off the top of my head, but in the 1980's, support for a handgun ban was hovering in the 85% range - now it's in the 65% range.

Also note that when these polls are taken, the 55+ population invariably responds more anti-gun. The younger generations don't fear guns the same way the old ones do.

6

u/jpnc97 Jun 11 '22

Im curious if you polled 300 people in southern alberta vs 300 people in toronto what the outcome of the poll for gun legislation would be. I dont think it paints an accurate picture at all.

2

u/Current-Ad7988 Jun 11 '22

Yeah thats what i was thinking. How can stats not be easily skewed in this manner sure 300 ppl were asked but where? This is gonna make a massive difference in results. I am from a smaller town and was looking through my contacts to see if there are any people who probably dont have a pal yet that would be open to going to the range to learn to shoot. Out of roughly 75 people i knew 2 that dont already have it.

2

u/jpnc97 Jun 12 '22

Yea after moving to alberta all but one person ive met has their pal, and the guy that doesnt have his is extremely pro gun and goes to the range. Breath of fresh air

2

u/Apples_and_Overtones Your feet suck and so do you Jun 11 '22

the 55+ population invariably responds more anti-gun. The younger generations don't fear guns the same way the old ones do.

I don't know about that. A lot of younger people (I am thinking university student age-range) are definitely more anti-gun than older folks in my experience. Obviously, not everyone in that group has the same opinion but ask around various universities in the country and I am willing to bet the general sentiment would be anti-gun.

Geographic location also absolutely matters. People in larger cities would probably be more anti-gun oriented than people in rural areas or smaller cities (that aren't being force-fed doom and gloom about gang violence on the daily).

If there was a study for this, I'd be interested to see. If not, there should be.

1

u/throwa37 Jun 12 '22

No, literally, they always do. Look at the breakdowns of the polls. /u/OxfordTheCat posted one further down. Click it and read the breakdown.

0

u/OxfordTheCat Jun 11 '22

... I can't believe I have to say this in this day and age, but you don't need to poll every person in the country.

Even a poll of 300 Canadian adults would give you a 95% confidence interval with a 5% margin of error.

This is the point of statistics.

6

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '22

Guys like o leary low key fear an armed population, they are uncomfortable with the fact that joe the plumber has the same guns that they hire to protect themselves with.

8

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '22

Watch out you're toeing the line of being a conspiracy theory gun nut. Can't point out that obvious fact now can we?