Weekly Politics Thread

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[u/TechnologyReady → u/[deleted]]

Great post. I agree that promoting shooting sports as a fun, family oriented activity, is a futile effort. There is zero chance you will get them to see it that way. And even if you could, as you say, that argument is easily shot down by "but fun hobbies cannot justify the possession of firearms that can cause such harm".

But I disagree that you have a successful argument for "but we have a right to defend ourselves". You'll never win that argument either. I have seen woke-libs actually argue that we do NOT have the right to defend ourselves, that our duty is to turn the other cheek, sacrifice ourselves on the alter of non-violence. More moderate libs will argue that your duty is to call the police and wait. Or, that it's just a fantasy to think you could successfully use a gun to defend yourself when the chips are down in any case. Or that it's a false concern in the first place because the odds that you are a victim of violent crime is incredibly low anyway.

I agree with /u/CalibreMag that the focus needs to be squarely on the fact that these gun bans are a wasteful use of resources, and a distraction from the real problem. This is the dispassionate argument, that is not easily defeatable by moralistic arguments. I've used this argument myself, which is often responded to by "Yes, well, the government can do more than one thing at once!" However, as time passes, and other problems build up, this argument becomes harder and harder to make. This government continues to ignore real problems it should be solving, and focusing only on these partisan political issues.

I would also make the argument that we should have the right to defend ourselves. The right of self-defence is a human right that is fundamentally rooted in core concepts of humanity. It isn't explicitly enshrined in our laws, but it doesn't need to be, because it's a fundamental human right above that of any state's ability to legislate. It cannot be restricted. I think we can achieve the acceptance of this among moderates, because it's imminently reasonable. Once we have achieved that bridgehead of logic, then we can press for the legal ability to plan for our own self-defence. First, in our own homes. Maybe long after that, we could talk about the ability to plan for our self-defence in public. But that's a long way off. I don't see us succeeding there unless the public viewed it as true, that widespread random public violence is rampant and the police are not capable of defending us. We may get there, with the way things are going.

Because elsewhere you stated something that's not true, about legally being allowed to use weapons to protect yourself. It's not clear cut, at all.

We are legally allowed to possess weapons. But we are not allowed to possess weapons for reasons contrary to the public peace. And a series of court rulings have defined that contrary to the public peace means in preparation to defend yourself in public. Strangely, only criminals are allowed to carry weapons for self defence, because they can't rely on the police. The rest of us are expected to rely on the police (or negotiate with our attackers, or run away).

So, you're not allowed to prepare for your self defence by possessing weapons. But you are allowed to use them, if you should be so lucky to find yourself in possession of them when you are attacked. It's a subtle but very important distinction.

It seems unlikely that we would win the hearts and minds of the general population, about the legal right to prepare for self defence, until and unless the general population feels that things have really gone to hell. And clearly, they are not in that mindframe.