r/canadaguns • u/AutoModerator • 4d ago
Recurring Canadaguns Politics and Debate Thread
Please post all your Gun Politics or Ban-related ideas, questions, initiatives, comments, suggestions, news articles, and recommendations in this thread. This thread recurs every 14 days.
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u/WeightedDips95 3d ago
Gotta love how how Carney was elected on being a master negotiator and crisis man and 1.5 years has nothing to show for it and we’re getting ground into dust. Judging by his supporters discourse on Reddit and X, they’re in a negative feedback loop where the worse he does and the more tarrifs we get the more they’re convinced he is a god. It even seems like they’re willing to nuke our economy over this. Pretty scary shit. We’re in a mass psychosis
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u/2Puppers4Sale Custom Flair (Be appropriate or else we'll take it away again) 3d ago edited 3d ago
There is this weird standard in which if Carney gets a good trade deal with the US, he is a master negotiator who can handle Trump but if he doesn't, that also means he is a master negotiator who won't deal with an unreasonable person like Trump, so no matter what happens, Carney is seen as a master negotiator who is smart and pragmatic and his approval sky rockets because your average Canadian is a moron who cares more about being smugly anti-American than anything else.
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u/WeightedDips95 3d ago
Perfectly put. The Liberals have managed to manipulate the informational environment into a situation where they can never do wrong and conservatives can never do right.
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u/2Puppers4Sale Custom Flair (Be appropriate or else we'll take it away again) 3d ago
For real, like if Pierre Poilievre was in charge instead, people would say that he folded and caved in to Trump if he got a deal and that he has no negotiation skills whatsoever if he didn't get a deal.
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u/WeightedDips95 3d ago
100%. Or if he had been calling for very specific policies for years, they would say his ideas are garbage and destructive, but if Carney stole them, they would say Carney has great ideas and that PP actually never even has any ideas lmao.
I honestly just don’t even think Canadian democracy works at this point. We have psychopaths in control, media that has abdicated all responsibilities, and a smoothbrain electorate.
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u/LordRaizer 1h ago
I've noticed this, did people conveniently forget that this guy ran a campaign on "getting a deal with Trump" and that he was the one who was "best equipped to handle him" ?
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u/Lumindan 33m ago
The goal post has shifted to "no one can deal with Trump" when it's brought up (including some interesting interpretation of elbows up).
Ironically Pierres entire point was exactly what people are now using to defend Carney, that we work around trump and diversify our resources and trade systems. (Let's also just ignore that every party in Canada stood up against trump but I digress).
The bridge debacle is really telling tbh. Granted Canadian voters have gold fish memory so I doubt it'll stay relevant (not to mention the hilarious slant by our media, don't get me started on that)
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u/Lumindan 3d ago
I think it's a mixture of people not understanding basic economics (people saying we can divest from the US, which is nutty btw), people who treat politics like team sports and a pinch of "we are not American" smugness and there we are.
Combine that with the team sports mentality and everything is a personal attack.
People will turn a blind eye to the government passing draconian spy bills and running pointless gun grabs because they're "winning".
It'd gonna be a hot minute until people wake up and realize how bad they've let things slide. The one upside is that historically this always happens, just when is the concern.
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u/WeightedDips95 3d ago
I think we passed the point of no return. I don’t think Canada can be saved at this point. Ironically enough for all the new “Canadian nationalist”, they’ve all but ensured the collapse of Canada.
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u/Lumindan 32m ago
I do think the pendulum will swing back. When though? That's thats a hard answer.
Quality of life needs to dip even further tbh, historically Canadians live to vote out governments and blame their issues on previous establishments.
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u/RydNightwish 2d ago
Brother, Carney will go full belka on the country and the smooth brained masses in ON and QC will be convinced it was a 4D chess play that truly showed trump whats up.
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u/rastamasta45 4d ago
So the countdown to November begins folks! More waiting for the most dangerous group of law abiding Canadians! We’re the most dangerous demographic there ever was, not sure how this country is still standing! Maybe Christ, mean Carney will finally save us from the scourge of PAL holders! Someone stuff Gary’s cheeks with more tax payer money! Stat!
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u/son_of_ghandicap 3d ago
Was it ever disclosed to the public where the Montreal shooter got his guns? Or if he even held a PAL?
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u/greasygreenbastard 3d ago
memory-holed 🫢🤔
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u/LordRaizer 1h ago
I think because the female officer shot a civilian
That puts a hole in the "only police should have guns because they're well trained" argument
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u/yummybunnybear 1h ago
It's only getting worse as the government relentlessly attacks our firearms community to drive ranges out of business.
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u/Lumindan 3d ago
If the shooter had a PAL, we would see that front and center as justification for banning the sks.
But the optics on the last few shootings have all been bad for the government (almost like legal firearms ownership has never been the issue).
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u/Office_Responsible 3d ago
If they had a PAL, poly would have been screaming it from day 1. Since that isn’t the case I’m assuming no.
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u/Dill_Pickle_Tears 4d ago
Anyone with real parliamentary/legislative knowledge have any guesses as to how the government could respond to the OICs being repealed?
I know most say they’d ram through bans via a bill, but I’d imagine that this could take much longer depending on the stipulations from the SCC
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u/FunkyFrunkle 4d ago edited 4d ago
Nobody here would have that kind of knowledge, except for maybe [u/Calibremag](u/Calibremag), who has put in an extraordinary amount of work on behalf of this community and has a more detailed knowledge of how the government works beyond that of the layman, due to his years of working in the industry and regularly interfaces with them.
However, I do like to maintain a degree of optimism. In my opinion, they could have passed legislation long before now, but haven’t. The liberals were only ever a handful of seats away from a majority before they got it, and it wouldn’t have been much trouble to scrape together a handful of votes to pass gun control legislation. It didn’t really move the needle a considerable amount for us I think.
My own speculation is based on what I’ve seen, not so much on what they say. I’m going to list out a few things I’ve noticed, and you can judge for yourself if where I’m going makes sense.
These are in no particular order.
Firstly, Although Carney mentioned that they would “reinvigorate” the buyback, he has pretty much sidestepped it ever since, even outright skimming past it when asked about what they plan to do about violent crime. Instead talking about border security and bail reform. When asked about the SKS, he again passed the buck onto the RCMP and remained non-committal about it. To me, this looks like he’s trying to establish distance between himself and the program. He hasn’t shown much enthusiasm for this program unlike Trudeau, who mentioned it as a core strategy every chance he got.
Does this mean he’s gearing up to abandon it? I would give it a soft no. This seems more like he’s preparing for this program to fall to pieces, but you never know.
Second, the program itself still faces massive provincial opposition as well as opposition from a litany of police forces. It’s only a handful of jurisdictions scattered across the country that have collection points up and running. Logistics and financials are still huge issues, and legislation wouldn’t do anything to fix this. All legislation would do is cement the headache.
Third, the government largely has no idea who has what when it comes to non-restricted guns which goes a considerable distance in making this unenforceable in any practical way. In addition, our justice and corrections systems are not equipped or designed to handle a massive, potential influx of cases which is why I think some of the provinces got involved with the SCC case. Their Attorney Generals are likely very aware of the ramifications this policy could have on their provincial courts and likely don’t want it to happen.
Fourth, every time MP Provost appeared on camera to speak for the program since she became MP, she seems barely composed. I would go as far to say she looks stressed out. Frantic. Her body language proves this with the self-soothing gestures.
I would have to imagine that an MP who is not only a Secretary of State, but the most prominent figure of Canadian gun control would almost certainly be involved or at the very least have more intimate knowledge of the minutiae of this policy behind all the closed doors. From what I’ve seen, she does not come across as having all the confidence in the world that this program is going to cross the finish line and this was apparent enough when she was practically pleading with gun owners to rat out their friends and family.
Five. The whole thing is headed to the Supreme Court which despite the cynicism of the doomers here, this whole thing stands a very real chance of falling apart for the government. Carney mentioned that they were going to “wait” and see what the court decision is so they can “see what we can do within the confines of the law”, or something to that effect.
Six, Public Safety was one of the hardest hit ministries with cuts. A bunch of people got laid off, and the biggest driver for recent hiring within public safety is the gun ban. Do with this information as you will.
Finally, the seventh point. Our current economic climate is not conducive to spending untold fortunes of taxpayer money on a gun ban. At some point someone is going to have to recognize this and I think they already have. As mentioned in point 5, they laid off a bunch of people within public safety.
So all in all, I think the government would likely back away from this for a bit, but I would expect them to try again in a more subtle approach once things have cooled off. The problem with this program is not enough time was spent actually researching the feasibility of banning this many guns. Instead they went all in on the glamour and glitz of announcing bans while doing the heavy lifting on the fly.
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u/New-Replacement-2352 4d ago
It’s crazy how much this is mirroring the long gun registration. Extremely expensive, low compliance rate and no way to enforce it. It’s gonna die a long slow death too. You think they would have learned a lesson or two from the LGR but I guess not, smh.
If registering millions of guns was too hard for them, where did they get the idea that stealing millions of gun away from people was a good idea. These people are profoundly stupid, don’t forget that.
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u/Lumindan 4d ago
You think they would have learned a lesson or two from the LGR
They did learn a lesson. You can burn billions with zero consequences.
These people are profoundly stupid, don’t forget that.
Do not mistake malice for stupidity. They're pushing this stuff for a reason. No one there actually cares about public safety but they have an agenda and it's been made clear (especially with the leaks)
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u/Dill_Pickle_Tears 3d ago
Only positive revelation from the ministers hot mic moment is that they are only doing this to keep Quebec ridings locked down for the party - and to align with their principles of being a party that follows through.
That being said, I say this is positive because it’s become clear that backing poly and continuing with the bans has very little political value right now; specifically, gun control is being overshadowed by the LPC’s bad environmental policy, exacerbated by the wildfires, as well as ongoing US-Canada relations continuing to sour.
In other words, many Canadians couldn’t give a rats behind about guns when our forests are burning and costs of living continue to rise. Full stop.
To add to this, Carneys reelection chances and approval ratings rest on how he handles the US-Canada situation going forward - or at least to a much greater degree. This will be a much greater focus going forward.
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u/Office_Responsible 4d ago
What leaks are you talking about?
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u/Lumindan 4d ago
The leak of our public safety minister.
Gary's little oopsie just confirmed what we all knew.
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u/Dill_Pickle_Tears 3d ago
I think it will go the same way. I also think the AR-15 will continue its turbulent history and be flipped back to restricted. If you read up on this, it narrowly escaped prohibition via OIC as it was determined to have legitimate sporting purposes. Then it flipped to non restricted briefly before going back to restricted
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u/EnvironmentBright697 4d ago
Calibremag had mentioned on X that he’s heard from someone in public safety that they are working on legislation.
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u/Lumindan 4d ago
We all knew this was coming.
SCC rules in our favor? They'll push a new bill.
SCC rules against us? They'll push a new bill.
Don't you love majority governments?
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u/Office_Responsible 4d ago
How I see it is that regardless of the SCC ruling we will get fucked by legislation that makes the OICs look tame. Polys poster girl didn’t get added to parliament for nothing. Personally I’m waiting for the hammer to drop. In the mean time I will continue to shoot what I have and maybe pick up some more. Nothing else we can do.
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u/Lumindan 4d ago
Pretty much. Just keep hanging on, get more people to get their PALs, keep supporting local businesses etc.
It's a long battle.
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u/Office_Responsible 4d ago
More people with their PALs is great but ultimately I don’t think it matters. The LPC has an agenda to push, the number of PAL holders is irrelevant to that especially with a majority government. Also my LGS is really struggling and people just aren’t buying guns like they used to (according to them), plus most of what we have now is shit (my opinion). Gone are the days of my sub-1k AR-15.
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u/FunkyFrunkle 4d ago edited 4d ago
They’ve been saying that for a while to be fair. In fact, that was the plan going as far back as 2020 but nothing much has been said about it lately. They’ve been on summer recess so we’ll see what happens in the fall.
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u/CalibreMag 4d ago
I'll have more to say on this soon... just need to get all my t's crossed, and i's dotted.
But I can say it's unlikely we hear much, if anything, on the gun file this fall.
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u/Dill_Pickle_Tears 3d ago
Working on drafting legislation doesn’t necessarily mean it makes it to become a bill to eventually become law. It’s possible it’ll take so long there’s another election by then.
Only my opinion, but if they can’t articulate how new legislation will serve to correctly amend or reform C21 in a meaningful way, it may not make it through the House of Commons.
Sure, they have a majority, but again it could still result in mass non-compliance or result in liberal MPs abstaining due to how unpopular the bill is.
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u/son_of_ghandicap 3d ago
Damn you for giving me hope, Brother. Damn you! lol
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u/FunkyFrunkle 3d ago
Hope isn’t a bad thing, it’s managing expectations that’s hard. Things aren’t always going to turn out 100% right for us, and things aren’t always going to turn out 100% right for them either.
What keeps me going is the sheer difficulty and opposition this program faces. It’s been in the oven for six years, seven by the time the SCC renders its decision.
This isn’t a program that’s going well, this isn’t a program that has a positive consensus around the country.
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u/JTrudeausLeftNut 4d ago
From a legal perspective, the argument is that the legislation is ultra vires vis a vis the Firearms Act. Essentially, the CCFR is saying that the federal government enacted a GIC/regulation that Parliament didnt give it the authority to do. Alternatively, they are also arguing that there was an infringement on charter rights (not up to date on the argument, assuming vagueness?)
Assuming CCFR win, the options are:
Reformulate the regulation to comply with the Firearms Act and the Charter
Let the regulation die and do nothing.
Change the Firearms Act to allow them to do what they want.
Each option has a political cost and could take some time. Additionally, the SCC can "delay" its ruling to give the Government time to address the issue (e.g. new legislation).
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u/Cre_AK47 Name Prohibited by OIC 3d ago
It really depends on what the Supreme Court tells the government.
1: They could tell them to fully scrap it, then the ban ends immediately as the OIC bans were never legal.
2: SCC could also say the OIC bans were illegal but then issue a stay of proceedings, giving the government 12 months to pass legislation to continue the ban, with the OIC still remaining in effect until the 12 month legislation stipulation.
3: Lastly they could to get this tell us to get fucked but in a different way than what the federal court of appeal ruled...
I'm thinking #2 is most likely what's going to happen. There's bound to be some anti-gun judicial activists who reside on the Supreme Court, who also suck up to the Liberals/Laurentian Elite whenever they can even if this would set a very dangerous precedent of giving the executive branch criminal law power as long as Parliament designates it in law...
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u/Agonizing-Stroke1812 3d ago
They have already destroyed a bunch of guns in BC and are actively collecting in ON. The two highest prohib count provinces by raw count. There is no turning back I'm afraid
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u/Dill_Pickle_Tears 3d ago
I’m not so sure. There’s no turning back for sure with respect to any firearms declared and already turned in. That said, the likely positive SCC decision could result in a pause on any further bans and would most would be weary of turning their guns in at that point.
What I’d like to know is: what REALLY happens if the SCC reverses the OICs?
I really don’t think the fed response will be the swift and definitive parliamentary reversal many think. It’s more likely something slower or flaccid IMO. Making large changes would require time and they already caught considerable flak for rushing things like they have since carney was elected
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u/thecoolernameistaken 4d ago
Good news when
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u/WeightedDips95 4d ago
In Canada? I think we’re long past that. I don’t think the good days are ever coming back.
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u/Lumindan 3d ago
RCMP officers ‘intentionally’ set home ablaze during tense standoff, court documents reveal
Add this one to the list. Bit of an older incident but it's finally coming to light in the courts.
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u/GinnAdvent 3d ago
It is concerning precedent if the police can just justify their action afterward since there were no harm or damage. But what if it it did?
It's the same as the shooting incident happen a month ago on in Montreal where one of the bystander was caught in the cross fire. Because it was a "dynamic and highly stressful situations"
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u/TKB-059 bc 3d ago
But what if it it did?
Then they would have said it was an oopsie we are so sorry we didn't know smoke grenades did that, expect for the fact its common knowledge.
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u/Lumindan 2d ago
They'll just add it to the list of barns, fire halls and other things they've destroyed lol
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u/hartownlamar 2d ago
https://globalnews.ca/news/11973973/quebec-lab-fake-passports-documents as per the article, they were making forged firearm acquisition permits as well. I feel like the rabbit hole is deep on this one. Unfortunately this article probably wont get the indepth discussion by the msm it deserves.
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u/mwmwmwmwmmdw 19h ago
the only thing you can buy with a fake PAL these days is ammo and magazines. since if you actually put the number into a computer nothing will come up.
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u/Armed_Accountant Whoever wants to touch my guns has to touch me first. 11h ago
Could be a real number of a stolen one.
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u/mwmwmwmwmmdw 2h ago
it could be but you also need to know the persons email and other info for the transfer. plus when the innocent party goes to do the check the person whose pal is stolen will get an email about it and you'd hope they notice their pal got checked when they didnt buy anything.
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3d ago edited 3d ago
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u/WeightedDips95 3d ago
Anyways, a simple google search reveals you’re generally not able to carry a knife as a gym goer.
Kind of a silly assertion in your post I think. I get what you’re trying to say but we’re turning into the UK anyways and it’s not because people are demanding 1 set of standards apply to everyone and not letting minorities have more rights than the rest of us, which is ironically also a feature of the UK
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3d ago
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u/Reasonable_Hall2346 2d ago
Its also not illegal for me to walk around with my unloaded non-restricted firearm. But I guarantee you its will cause me legal problems.
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u/WeightedDips95 3d ago
I always assumed the legality was based on context and reason. Like you can legally always carry a knife for some sort of “utility”, but what utility could you argue for having one in a gym.
In any case, thankfully the conversation isn’t about whether or not it should be legal, even in places devoid of rational thought like r/canada. People just want to have the same standard applied to everyone. People also find the character in question deeply distasteful. I just don’t think we need to ignore the obvious here thinking it will somehow help us achieve open carry of handguns or something, cause it won’t.
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u/WeightedDips95 3d ago
Is it legal to openly care a knife at the gym?
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u/Late_Winner6859 1d ago
Just googled it.. honestly don’t understand why this was an issue at all. Of all places, gym is filled with a lot of heavy throwable stuff. A small knife is probably the last thing to worry about in such environment
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3d ago edited 3d ago
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u/WeightedDips95 3d ago
Don’t you need a plausible purpose to be carrying a knife though? I have trouble believing I wouldn’t get into trouble if I openly carried a knife into a gym. I think what we all want is for people to at the very least be treated the same and not have a two tiered legal system
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u/StalkerRigo 4d ago
I just want any good news or signs of even a slight turn of tide
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u/boozefiend3000 4d ago
Unfortunately you live in Canada my guy. Bad news is all we get
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u/RydNightwish 4d ago
Yeah, but all those compounding bad news and missed goals simply mean we are sticking it to trump!
Somehow...
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u/Lumindan 4d ago
It's gonna be quiet until the SCC stuff drops.
Liberals won't risk rocking the boat with the decision in the air. House is on vacation so we won't see much.
Polling is positive for them so they don't need to beat the usual dead horse to drum up a good news cycle (plus the last two major shootings tragedies have had bad optics).
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u/I-LOVE-HENRY-RIFLES 3d ago
Why are they on vacation 90% of the year. No wonder why nothing gets done in this country
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1d ago
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u/rastamasta45 1d ago
What do you mean?? You don’t like Carney’s approval rating going up every time he lies to us, we just found out we got scammed on the Gordie Howe bridge and he lied.
You don’t like that Louri Idlout has another scandal regarding insider dealing with companies and it’s totally forgiven since she crossed the floor?
You don’t like that our economy is tanking harder and the boomers who’s retirement pensions are vested in the NYSX are all for “sacrifices to fight Trump” while us younger folk have nothing left to sacrifice?!!?!
I don’t know about you, but I’m planning to vote harder for Christ, I mean carney and put my elbows up even more. Remember PP is worse.
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u/Sticky_3pk 4d ago
PSA 570 is releasing this week, how would bringing one of these in work? Just let IRG handle it?
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u/son_of_ghandicap 3d ago
I don't really see the point of this shotgun when OG Remingtons and Mossbergs are readily available. Is the price point _way_ low or something?
That being said, the RMR mounting point is a fucking sick feature!
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u/Enough_Challenge7264 4d ago
Okay Poly!!
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u/JerkyMan360 4d ago
What happened?
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u/greasygreenbastard 3d ago
Poly just endorsed roller-lock supremacy 👀👀
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u/RydNightwish 17h ago edited 17h ago
Careful folks. khalistani/rcmp/poly goons (begins msg with "sir" is a big tell) are dming trying to buy pistols from people posting thier collection. Report them to reddit, the mods and block em.
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u/DoYouGetSarcasm 11h ago
Sir, i don't know what you're talking about. I'm just a hard working regular guy like you. Say, that's a nice weapon you posted there. I really like the style of it, it's very assault! Have you ever thought of illegally selling it? Tee hee, it's really not a big deal, were just two regular weapon loving dudes! My name is Natal- uh, Nate... It's ah, short for... Ah, Nathane? Ya my name is Nathane but you can call me nate.
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u/PA-Rugby-Fan 29m ago
Hello sir, I am a student with limited funds would you please lower your price thank you sir god bless you sir
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4d ago
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u/canadaguns-ModTeam 4d ago
In accordance with the subreddit rules, your post/comment has been removed for the following reason:
[1] Disrespectful/Insulting or Hateful Comments
Civility, courtesy, and politeness, is expected within this subreddit. A post or comment may be removed if it's considered in violation of Reddit's RULES, Reddiquette, and User Agreement.
Using negative generalizations on persons based upon their backgrounds, ethnicity, gender, or appearance is subject to comment removal and a possible ban from the subreddit. Keep comments directed at actions, not at individuals.
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u/boozefiend3000 4d ago
Another glorious week alive in this progressive paradise!