r/canadaguns • u/Callie7680 • Apr 19 '26
News / Politics / Activism Genuinely curious on liberal views of gun laws
Hello all. Looking for a debate on the other side of all of the gun laws / bans from a liberal point of view. How does it ACTUALLY make sense to liberals with the current laws. C21 was passed with hopes of lowering crime? How is that going? The OIC. How has the crime rate gone since? How are these “liberal experts” in power thinking this is actually going to make a difference? Canada could 100% ban every single firearm and gun crime would not go down 1 bit. I don’t really know any liberals to talk about it with I’d actually like to hear their side on it. I’m clearly not an expert on any of this but it just seems so ridiculous
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u/LongRoadNorth Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 19 '26
I wouldn't consider myself a liberal by any means as I'm way further left than liberal.
And I don't think majority of those that identify as liberal actually care about the ban. It's just used as a wedge issue between some liberals vs conservatives and the only reason more aren't speaking up against it, it doesn't affect them. They know it will do nothing, but there's other issues they care more about that they'll speak up for.
I think it's also changed where when it first came about after Nova Scotia shooting more were in support, but they have since realized it wouldn't have an affect on it. And they're starting to see the waste of money it is
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u/LongjumpingChipmunk Apr 19 '26
The other complication is that we have a relatively healthy gun culture compared to some jurisdictions. We're generally quiet about it, because we're rational, and getting loud and politically stumping about it exposes you to actual potential security issues. We are the perfect scapegoat, because the targets of legislation won't loudly complain because on some level it's still the sensible individual path to button up. I think the grabbers know that, and the money for all the legislation and implementation winds up in someone's account. At this point it has become a career or industry for insiders, and there is a (thankfully) small in number but passionate group of legitimate trauma survivors who make it incredibly hard to say no to, that get elected in Quebec, and there is incredible and funded pressure to do something. We're expedient for lazy reactionary career politicians and police that don't have to introspect on their clear failing prevention in some cases where communities were in fear of known individuals they'd interacted with long before, and smuggled guns.
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u/Infinite-Bill1072 Apr 19 '26
I used to be a Liberal Anti-gun person, now I'm a gun-nut. I still remember my old talking points, so me and you can have a fake debate and I'll just use those old talking points.
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u/Callie7680 Apr 19 '26
What are the liberals views on how this is going to be a success for Canada?
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u/Infinite-Bill1072 Apr 19 '26
(Remember that this is all acting on my end)
Banning guns in Canada could reduce the likelihood of deadly violence where easy access to a firearm can turn a situation fatal!!!!!111!!!
And who cares about Indigenous hunters trying to live the way of their ancestors, if they can't afford store-bought meat, they should just move to a city! I only care about them when it's politically necessary!!!!
Countries with stricter gun laws tend to have lower rates of gun-related deaths!!!!! Suggesting that limiting access can improve overall public safety!!!!!!!!! It’s not about eliminating all crime, but about reducing the severity and frequency of the most lethal outcomes!!!!!!!
And don't you dare bring up the fact that 80%+ gun crime in Canada is committed by smuggled American guns, and has been even like that even pre-2020!!!
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u/AdeptArt Apr 19 '26
This is good, really good.
I would actually believe the first point about introducing guns making situations worse if not for the fact that all gun owners have daily red flag checks. The moment you get locked up for mental illness or whatever the CFO knows and your guns get taken away. So proactive screening to prevent this already exists. This is a bigger issue in places like the US where anyone can get a gun at a gun show than in Canada where PAL holders are vetted daily.
But we do need slightly better mental health care in this country, I will admit.
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u/Infinite-Bill1072 Apr 19 '26
100% Bro, but try telling that to someone who is emotionally charged, when I used to be a lib, I was actually open minded, so when I found that out, the gears started turning... And after going shooting for the first time I was hooked
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u/Reasonable_Hall2346 Apr 19 '26
That there is our gateway. We to need to get more people at gun ranges.
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u/Infinite-Bill1072 Apr 20 '26
I tried to get this girl from my biology class to come with me and she started tearing up at the thought of holding a gun and started hyper ventilating... Maybe I'll ask a guy next time
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u/TheSaSQuatCh Apr 19 '26
One of my favourite argument to use against a certain subset of Reddit Liberals is: a sedentary lifestyle leads to 21,000 - 25,000 deaths a year in Canada, while 700 - 900 deaths a year are attributed to firearms. This means, Reddit and Video Games should be banned - think of all the lives we could save from a senseless death!
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u/AdeptArt Apr 19 '26
Yeah. Or ban alcohol, that leads to many more deaths a year. But we all know how that went down south.
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u/Callie7680 Apr 19 '26
There are more vehicle related deaths in Canada than there are firearm deaths. Sports cars are too fast and dangerous. They should be banned too. Maybe there should be breathalyzers in every car to prevent drinking and driving deaths.
Smoking is a huge killer every year. Why haven’t they banned that yet? Imagine how many lives would be saved if they did.
The list could go on and on for what kills more ppl per year than firearms
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u/ComplexQuiet6790 Apr 19 '26
You make an interesting point. What if the govt imposed extreme taxes, like they have on cigarettes and sports cars (luxury tax of 25%), on firearms or firearm components? Perhaps that's a viable alternative.
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u/HappyCan7250 Apr 22 '26
Interesting thing I learned today, Britain just passed a law banning the sale, ever, to anyone born after 2008, so in a decade when someone born in 2008 is nearly 30, they still won't be able to walk into a store and buy cigarettes, or vapes for that matter too. Kinda crazy, in my opinion.
Also nuts to think someone born in 2008 now turns 18 this year. Man time goes by fast!
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u/Callie7680 Apr 19 '26
But we’re landlocked to America. Guns will ALWAYS come into Canada illegally for crime. There is 0 way to stop it. It’s one thing if we were Australia where it’s much much harder to get illegal guns in. But Canada will never be able to slow them down.
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u/Infinite-Bill1072 Apr 19 '26
(remember guys, still acting)
Well at least 20% of gun crime is Canadian, if no one has a gun obtained here then, that'll drop Canadian-origin gun crime by 20%!! (ignore the fact that these people would probably seek out illegal guns then)
Only the government and its personnel should have guns!!!!
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u/bosnanic Apr 19 '26
Best part is a large chunk of that 20% is domestic abuse cases from one specific community, if you point that out they get uncomfterbale and try to change the subject real fast.
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u/613mitch Apr 19 '26
They always stop replying after this point. Or when you point out mexico is more strict than us by far, and yet their homicide rate by gun is super high.
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u/Automatic-Height4246 Apr 19 '26
Glad u dont think like that much about being irrational anymore.
“Knives and illegal guns dont matter Cz i dOnt KnoW aBOut theM
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u/AresV92 Apr 19 '26
The gun ban is something the majority of Liberals are ambivalent about. The only ones who care are Poly, but unfortunately they are a very loud lobby group so they get what they want. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
I think more and more Liberal voters are coming to find out what a boondoggle this program is (only through word of mouth as the media on the left does not cover it) and are starting to get angry about the waste of taxpayer money.
I doubt we'll see a doubling down from the new majority govt. I believe Carney will try his best to let it die without drawing attention to how poorly managed it has been. He can't turn it around because Poly would make a public stink about it, but he can't double down because it would cost too much money, so I think he'll try to play the middle ground of just extended amnesty or letting the deadline expire, but not really funding any response.
Fwiw I have voted Liberal, Con and NDP in the past because guns are a minor hobby to me and I usually vote on more pressing societal policy and/or my local candidate's past accomplishments.
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u/ComplexQuiet6790 Apr 19 '26
Very good take.
I'm a die hard liberal, will continue to liberal, and I'm also a gun nut, but it isn't my defining characteristic. So I take this dichotomy as an opportunity to introduce other liberals into shooting sports, with the goal to protest the privileges we currently do in fact have.
Because despite what the vocal online minority will have folks believe, the best path to protecting the sport is to have a bigger tent filled with liberals and conservatives.
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u/crafty_alias Apr 19 '26
Same boat but have voted NDP strategically in the past. I try to educate as many people as possible.
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u/ComplexQuiet6790 Apr 19 '26
Absolutely fair. And I should have clarified liberal as a leftist vs LPC.
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u/xpingux Apr 20 '26
So how in the world are you justifying the clearly political gun grab? You know it won't solve crime. They know it won't solve crime. Doesn't that say something about the party you are "die hard" for?
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u/Canadian-Footy-Fan Apr 20 '26
You are sort of ignoring the point. Most liberals don’t support (or try to justify) the gun grab. They just tolerate it because it isn’t the most important political issue to them (that determines how they vote) and they prefer the total package of left-leaning politics/policies/platforms versus what is currently being offered by Conservatives.
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u/ComplexQuiet6790 Apr 19 '26
Its also worth noting that all the people in the comments raging at us, fellow gun owners, is a strong reason why the problem will get worse, not better.
The Canadian gun community needs to make serious efforts to embrace liberals, to create pro-gun liberals, because it is a liberal leaning society. Instead every online gun forum is predominantly vehemently anti-liberal, which is a great way to shrink the sport further and further.
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u/Callie7680 Apr 19 '26
That’s fair. Regarding your voting. There is most definitely more pressing issues. However I’m just looking to talk about firearms here. Lol
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u/Ritchie_Whyte_III Apr 19 '26
I think the commenter was only talking about his voting habits to give relevant context that they are not a single issue voter (firearms) like many firearms enthusiasts are right now.
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u/Davor_Penguin Apr 19 '26
That's the thing though, when you vote you have to look at all the issues.
Most non-conservative voters I know (myself included) are either pro-gun or completely ambivalent, but all against the illogical bans and buy-backs. But that's nowhere near our most pressing issue, so it's not even close to enough to sway our votes.
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u/Zestyclose_Glass_809 Apr 19 '26
Relying on your intuition of a government who has proven its lies to you to letting the gun file die is the dumbest thing I’ve read. Name one billion dollar project that the liberals let die. They’ll hold out just to save face to the small but loud voter base that’s screaming for these bans.
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u/Minimum_Leg5765 Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 19 '26
All partisans are insane people you shouldn't trust. The better question is why isn't this a topic that's garnering more public sympathy? I can't even get my MP to respond to my emails and I voted for her lol (not that she owes me a reply because of that but I am aligned with the party on most issues).
When you read the average post on this Reddit about this topic I think you can see why the public doesn't like engaging on this issue. It gets into a mud slinging contest immediately. Liberals are anti-evidence private rights property taking fascists and Gun people love violence and school shootings. Between other contentious issues like cimate change, immigration, health care, and pipeline politics the gun debate juice isn't worth the squeeze.
From a really gross political perspective even if they changed course they are likely to gain 0 votes. The folks that are most pro gun are not going to reward the Liberals enough to make up for the loss of vote in Eastern Canada. No one is taking their fuck Trudeau vinyls off if they shift gears.
For what it's worth I've voted for and donated to every single major Canadian party over my voting lifetime. Like other posters guns are not my top voting issue.
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u/ComplexQuiet6790 Apr 19 '26
It's the very vocal online minority for whom gun ownership is their one and only issue in life.
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u/Ritchie_Whyte_III Apr 19 '26
As a moderate conservative in Alberta, with many friends of the same mindset...
We do see Carney as a "conservative" type leader and are happy with the changing away from the "Trudeau" way of doing things. If Carney was the leader of the Conservatives instead of PP we would be thrilled.
However the gun bans, and buyback fiasco are huge stumbling blocks for us, because it is a direct link to the "vibes" politics of the previous government.
I personally think the Liberals would make huge rural and western Canada inroads by a much more evidence based approach to firearms education and control.
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u/TheSaSQuatCh Apr 19 '26
This is such a dishonest take, and you know it. Anyone right of Trudeau is a “Conservative”, yet Carney continues to perpetuate the same nonsense as the previous Liberal government. Immigration at an all-time high. Lots and lots of virtue signalling with very little action. The continued waste of resources that is the firearms ban. Etc etc etc.
No, we wouldn’t be happy if a Globalist was the leader of the Conservative Party.
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u/Minimum_Leg5765 Apr 19 '26
Going up 5% in rural area (they could poll this number probably I pulled it out of my ass) wouldn't make a dent in their seat count when the ridings out east are much more competitive.
I'm cynical enough to believe that they've already done the math and don't think it's worth it lol
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u/Ritchie_Whyte_III Apr 19 '26
I think it is a no win situation. Ideally it would just go away, but the last ten years of missteps by Trudeau has corned the Liberal Party into either looking like they have wasted a pile of time and resources to the whole country, or don't care about "safety" to some very loud single issue voters in Quebec.
I think the answer is for the Liberals to do a bit of a "wipe the slate" kind of legislation and introduce new categories and requirements for them other than just the existing PAL/RPAL and arbitrary categorization within those. Make an actual technical framework of what a function of a firearm is and set reasonable education and licencing for those particular levels.
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u/LongRoadNorth Apr 19 '26
Same could be said about the cons making grounds in the vote dense cities if they ditched the far right side of the party and went exclusively centre right
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u/Q-Ball7 In the end, it's taxes all the way down Apr 19 '26
They won't be allowed to do that by the media machine ("hE's TrUmP-lItE"), and you know that.
Unfortunately for this country (and unlike the US), a vote in anywhere but the cities doesn't matter, so straight up going "fuck the cities, they're making sure nothing else develops in the country to stay in power forever" (which is true) won't work here like it does there.
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u/slvrus Apr 19 '26
There is no "far right" or even actual right in this country. Most Canadians are way too soft and neutered because they dont want hurt feefees.
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u/Newftube Apr 19 '26
Do you mean Liberal as in LPC, or Liberal as in 'left side of the political spectrum'? Cause those are two different answers realistically.
I've met and worked with other leftists that have no interest in firearms (outside of the odd video game) whatsoever, but can agree that the current state of gun laws and gestures broadly is bullshit. They're usually pretty surprised with how many guns and gun owners there are around.
But I also live in Newfoundland, so I get exposure to a lot of LPC Liberals that think any intertest in firearms is haram and you're a garbage person for having an interest in them. The effect on crime, the money wasted or the effect on hobbies like paintball or airsoft is immaterial.
I don't think we're going to see any real answers from that latter group on a subreddit with 'guns' in the name.
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u/Office_lady0328 Apr 19 '26
I consider myself a Liberal. I'm also a PAL holder and gun owner. Target shooting is fun and I hunt to provide ethically sourced meat for myself.
I was never on board with Bill C21, or any other outright ban and heavy restrictions that have been imposed in the last year. If people want to use guns to commit crimes, they're obviously not going to care about any bans and they certainly won't be assed to get a license either.
Regardless, I think our current PAL system is a good foundation. Not because it prevents criminals from aquiring firearms, but it does allow us to monitor current legal gun owners who may, for one reason or another, may become unfit to own guns.
In the last years I've watched my once completely sane, caring, level headed father succumb to early stages of dementia. While he's still mostly cognitive, he goes into these delusional psychotic episodes where he totally loses touch with reality and becomes extremely paranoid and angry. He doesn't have a gun (Or a PAL) but if he did, we would have removed it from him and requested he lose his PAL. His intentions aren't malicious, and he's not going to illegally seek out a gun to purposely commit a crime, but I can see how not having any PAL requirements might facilitate the legal purchase a firearm, which he may use during one of his episodes of accessible.
TLDR: I'm a liberal, I fully support licensing and background/health checks for gun ownership, but I do not support C21 or the current bans and heavy restrictions. I support PAL for the purpose of managing non-malicious gun owners who may suffer mental health or other psychological declines.
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u/Candid-Tomato2971 Apr 19 '26
Almost all of the liberals I have talked to are not supporters of the gun ban, rather they think it’s not a smart idea at best. I don’t think there’s anyone really, outside of some pockets in Quebec and downtown Ontario that is really pushing this.
This is bigger than a Canadian issue, it’s part of the new world order and disarming the populous in the common wealth (look at Australia, New Zealand, many if not all EU countries etc.). Carney wants Canada to be more like Europe, and less like the US
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u/Canadian-Footy-Fan Apr 20 '26
In fairness I want Canada to generally become more like Europe and less like the US when it comes to most social policies. I just don’t want to have overly restrictive firearms legislation. I don’t believe the two are necessarily tied.
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u/mjsoctober Apr 19 '26
I'm a liberal who supports gun rights. I only just finished my CFSC and I am waiting for my PAL, but it makes me mad that I won't be able to get a handgun, or many types of rifles because of pandering for votes based on feelings about guns.
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u/TheSaSQuatCh Apr 19 '26
One of my closest friends is a staunch liberal. His position on it, “no one needs guns. All guns are bad. You don’t need to hunt”. There is no arguing with people on this - it is as debatable as theology. It’s part of their religion, as Liberals. It doesn’t have to make sense, it’s just what they believe.
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u/Flat-Dark-Earth Big Bore Specialist Apr 19 '26
And this is why I see a very near and foreseeable future in Canada where hunting is prohibited for all but the natives.
"No one needs to provide food for themselves, that's what government is for..."
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u/TheSaSQuatCh Apr 19 '26
Literally his position, “we should have nationalized grocery chains. There isn’t a need to hunt when you can buy anything you need to eat at the grocery store”. Ideologues that have never felt any scarcity or hardships in their lives believe these things. I’m an immigrant. I came to Canada 30 years ago. I can tell you that those of us what experienced hardships know you can never rely on the government to be your messiah. You have only yourself.
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u/AdeptArt Apr 19 '26
the really messed up thing about the hunting argument is that many many people I know were using the vz 58 to hunt. Indigenous hunters too I bet. It was very mainstream in Canada prior to the bans.
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u/LongRoadNorth Apr 19 '26
The same can be said with cons though. You're looking at this black and white of con vs liberal and not the fact people are just stubborn and won't sway from their view on certain topics.
I listen to metal, you know how many people tell me it's just screaming and you can't understand it and no matter what I say they'll always think that?
What about religious views or religion in general? Ever see an atheist and hardcore Christian debate? Neither will budge or change their view.
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u/TheSaSQuatCh Apr 19 '26
My point here is dialectic has long left the chat. These positions aren’t born out of logic - they’re born out of faith. The religion of hyper-progressive Liberalism calls for the disarmament of individuals and for the government to have a monopoly on violence. A monopoly on everything - govern me harder, daddy.
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u/AgreeablePanda9805 Apr 19 '26
As someone who used to be very anti gun without knowing ANYTHING about guns, I can admit that I would’ve been in favour of gun bans bc I believed no one should have guns, hunting is wrong, and less guns will mean less gun crime.
That’s literally all the thought (if you can even call that thought) I used to put into it.
Basically guns = bad. Therefore gun bans = good.
I’m aware it’s a dumb argument based not on logic, facts, or critical thinking. It’s purely ideological. But that’s 100% the truth of how I used to think.
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u/Callie7680 Apr 19 '26
What changed your mind? Why did you think less legal guns would mean less crime?
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u/AgreeablePanda9805 Apr 20 '26
I can’t say I had any great thesis about legal guns and crime bc I didn’t differentiate between legal guns and illegal guns and which are more often used in gun crime.
I just lumped all guns into the same pot as being the problem behind gun crime. If NO ONE has guns, NO ONE can get shot by one. That is probably all the thought I ever put into it.
A number of factors changed my mind, it’s hard to pin it to any one thing. But overall I’d say that as much as I was very anti-gun, the ONLY time I ever thought I would want a gun was when I was watching certain movies.
Any kind of zombie apocalypse - you need guns. Any kind of post-apocalyptic world where society has completely broken down and people will kill you for food, water, shelter - you need guns. And movies that portrayed a government that turned against its own people - you need guns.
If I could imagine a time I might want a gun, no matter how unlikely, it meant I wasn’t entirely anti gun. Maybe I wasn’t 100% and was 99.9% anti gun. But there was some wiggle room, no matter how small.
Then, once I realized I could imagine I might hypothetically need/want a gun, I realized that meant I’d have to be able to get one. And you can’t wait for the world to completely go to shit and THEN try to get a gun. If you think you might need a gun at the end of the world, you have to have it before shit goes down.
So during this time I’m engaging in this silly little thought exercise in the privacy of my own mind, I realize that if I could imagine a future in which there might be a need for me to have a gun, it meant there was a future in which I would have a gun in my home. Which meant that in this hypothetical future, I’d have to get licensed, get a gun, and know how to use one safely.
It took time getting used to the thought of one day having a firearm in my home. It made me really uncomfortable for a while.
The last 10 years made me realize that 2/3 of my imagined scenarios aren’t wholly unrealistic. It might not happen like it does in the movies where you just wake up one day and the world is gone to shit, but I certainly felt an increasing shift in that direction. And that shift helped me get over the remaining discomfort I felt when I thought about owning a gun. And so I got my license.
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u/JipJopJones Apr 19 '26
Are you asking (L) Liberal? Or (l) liberal? There is likely a difference.
That being said - I am neither - though I do consider myself progressive/left leaning.
I believe in self defense. I believe in citizens being allowed to arm themselves. However I also believe that those rights should come with responsibilities.
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u/Callie7680 Apr 19 '26
And the responsibilities were always being upheld by law abiding owners. Mass shooting done by guns smuggled up from Maine put the liberals over the edge
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u/JipJopJones Apr 20 '26
I agree.
I would even say that pertains laws that existed before the 2020 OIC were pretty stringent.
Like, the concept of a restricted firearm is kinda weird to me. But if you want to classify them as such - fine. But once I've proven I'm able to own and operate them safely, why can't I take them out to the bush with me?
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u/RememberTheBoogaloo Apr 19 '26
NDP loser here, I don't know if you mean the party or the perspective.
My opinion is that the current OIC and classification scheme is extremely stupid and if they want to ban certain classes of firearms they could at least do so in a simplified classification which makes sense. Why the existing semi-automatic rifles that were so dangerous that they had to be prohibited were moved to prohibited is beyond me, when handgun ownership was grandfathered and you can still take them to the range.
I just want a gun classification system that makes sense, instead of having to rely on increasingly sketchy domestic and turkish suppliers to bring things to the market that are fun but get banned every 6 months.
Gun violence is an everyone and everywhere problem, I don't think it should be like the states where you can private sale AR15s to your neighbours if you feel like it, but there's gotta be a better middle ground to the current insanity that benefits no one, fails to prevent most shootings, and so on.
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u/MrB1P92 Apr 19 '26
Major leftists here: gun control is a center-right liberal idea. Its the same group that has been running this country in the ground forever.
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u/drpestilence Apr 19 '26
I'm in that camp I guess. Though my thing is evidence based policy is what I want. Thus I mostly hate Canadian gun law currently. Licenses and safety courses are good, I think limiting to semi auto is fine. But beyond that they should eff off. If you're deemed safe to own you're safe to own. End of story.
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u/shiddedandfarded69 Apr 19 '26
Guns are just a hobby for me. It's not a priority when it comes to voting. I can't say it's ever influenced my vote at all actually.
I have political opinions that are all over the map and have voted for all 4 major parties at some point. My first vote was for the old Reform party actually. But I've become more left leaning as I've aged, so I typically vote liberal or NDP depending on who's leading and who's running for MP in my riding.
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u/Davor_Penguin Apr 19 '26
You're making the mistake of assuming many people are single issue voters.
I hate the Liberal's stance on guns. But I hate Conservative stances on pretty much everything else (climate, LGBTQ, indigenous rights, drugs and housing, economic policies, etc) significantly more.
Don't love the Liberals for a lot of these either, but you end up voting for the best of the worst when options are limited.
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u/Claus-Buchi Apr 19 '26
There were/are more pressing issues than firearms that turned me away from voting for Pierre
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u/Spirited_Comedian225 Apr 19 '26
Agreed. I don’t agree with the bans or the buy back. I believe in common sense gun control. Do I want to own a M60 yes am I upset I can’t no. Guns are not my whole personality.
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u/AdeptArt Apr 19 '26
allowing civilian ownership of a semi M60 IS common sense gun control. anyone who can afford the 20k isn’t going to do anything bad with it.
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u/LongRoadNorth Apr 19 '26
Sadly in today's climate many make a single issue their entire personality. Happens on both sides
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u/RealTurbulentMoose Apr 19 '26
Exactly this. Obviously the gun grab is bullshit, but firearms was down my list of critical priorities with everything else going on in the world right now. I am disappointed the Libs doubled down on bad policy though.
That said, haven’t seen the Conservatives going hard at trying to reverse policy on firearms.
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u/GoGetInvolved Apr 19 '26
The Conservatives talk about this issue all the time. Pierre campaigned on it.
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u/RealTurbulentMoose Apr 19 '26
Pierre campaigned on it.
It was hardly a central plank in their campaign, and I haven't seen the Conservatives do anything on this since now that they're ineffectively in opposition.
You're talking about this guy, right? https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/poilievre-handgun-ban-1.7514585
Pressed by reporters if that means the handgun ban would be gone under a government led by him, Poilievre ignored the follow-up and moved on to the next question.
He's not who you're looking for to lead the charge on legal Canadian firearms. Just a politician who speaks out both sides of his mouth when it's convenient or inconvenient.
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u/GoGetInvolved May 31 '26
Missed this response at the time. It was an important plank of their campaign, mentioned multiple times, and they have been repeating it endlessly in Parliament since then. Take a quick look through their X feeds or through Hansard. If you haven't seen them say anything on this issue since the election you're just not paying attention, sorry. They also have multiple MPs for whom this is a huge issue and who the party gives lots of airtime to on this.
Poilievre dodging a gotcha question versus Carney tripling down on Liberal gun bans just isn't even in the same realm. It's obvious the Conservatives are much better on this issue, even if you don't think they're as good as could be.
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u/GoGetInvolved May 31 '26
And if even that makes you still want to vote Liberal then at least get involved in pressuring the Liberals from the inside. Otherwise they're going to keep doubling down on bad policy as long as they still have your vote by default.
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u/Claus-Buchi Apr 19 '26
Firearms seem to be almost political suicide here, I don’t see Pierre ever sticking his neck out for us
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u/Zestyclose_Glass_809 Apr 19 '26
He publicly said many times he would eliminate the bans and create a new system for firearm control. It’s part of his platform
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u/Claus-Buchi Apr 19 '26
Indeed. If I had more confidence in his word, it could’ve swayed my vote but his lack of stance on the handgun freeze plus firearm policy not even having a page on the conservative website and not seeming like main issue for them did not make it seem worthwhile to vote based on firearms alone.
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u/Zestyclose_Glass_809 Apr 19 '26
It’s in their policy if you took the time to read it….
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u/Claus-Buchi Apr 19 '26
When I google “Canada conservatives firearms” only one page comes up with 6-8 sentences about the Hunting Rifle Ban which is very underwhelming, maybe I’m missing something tho
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u/Zestyclose_Glass_809 Apr 19 '26
Here is the full paragraph about firearms from the conservatives for your pleasure.
- Firearms A Conservative Government is committed to cost-effective gun control programs designed to keep guns out of the hands of criminals while respecting the rights of law-abiding Canadians to own and use firearms responsibly. Measures will include: mandatory minimum sentences for the criminal use of firearms; strict monitoring of high-risk individuals; increased enforcement and prosecution of smuggling; safe storage provisions; 32 firearms safety training; a certification screening system for all those wishing to acquire firearms legally; and putting more law enforcement officers on our streets. We recognize the legitimacy of private ownership of firearms and will resist any domestic or international pressure to the contrary. A Conservative government will not deprive Canadian Citizens of legally owned firearms. A Conservative government recognizes that civilian firearms ownership is a Canadian Heritage. A Conservative government would streamline Firearms classification by adopting the Simplified Classification System. A Conservative government would order a review of firearms related laws to identify parts of those Acts that have no public safety value.
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u/LongRoadNorth Apr 19 '26
Why I wouldn't vote for him. I highly doubt he'd actually do anything to benefit us even in the magical world he actually won a majority.
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u/Zestyclose_Glass_809 Apr 19 '26
I suppose property rights aren’t high up on your priority list? Or the fact that you as a gun owner should see through the blatantly obvious lies and think to yourself, what else is this liberal government lying about? A big reason the liberals are getting away with the bs on guns is the fact that unless you are a gun owner, you don’t know anything about guns.
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u/Claus-Buchi Apr 19 '26
This might be a wake up to you, but both sides lie equally as much. I think Pierre would’ve just as helpful as Carney when it comes to firearms, Pierre did not convince me he was going to help us firearm owners out.
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u/Infinite-Bill1072 Apr 19 '26
Pierre would've gone down the string-along route, he would've edged the line around gun-unbans, but would make excuses about wicked liberals not letting him unban.
Pierre is the biggest politician, as in actor, you can tell everything he says is just a ruse, no personal opinions or morals, just whatever will garner him the most votes.
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u/Zestyclose_Glass_809 Apr 19 '26
Oh believe me I fully understand and take into consideration that both lie, but the facts are in front of you as a firearm owner. If you can’t see that you’re a lost cause. The difference is that you and I can/should be able to factually point out that the liberals have lied on multiple occasions in the last 11 years. The conservatives haven’t had a chance to prove any lies to me….
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u/Claus-Buchi Apr 19 '26
Where did I say I agree with how liberals handle firearm laws? Instead of whining at liberals, get mad that the conservatives who are so inept and incompetent they can’t beat the lying liberals you keep whining about.
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u/Zestyclose_Glass_809 Apr 19 '26
I didn’t say you agree, I said you either struggle to see through their lies on the subject, or choose to ignore those lies. Also, I’m not getting mad at a Conservative Party who had more support this last election than any before. But that’s ok, you can spew off hate for the conservatives just like the CBC has told you to 👍
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u/Claus-Buchi Apr 19 '26
I feel like the implication of not seeing through their lies is agreeing, but maybe I’m thinking too deep into your wording.
I have not said anything hateful, except the fact that Pierre is incompetent and inept. I think that’s a tame observation, don’t be a snowflake now 😉
I don’t know why you feel the need to shoehorn me into a CBC viewer as the only thing I’ve ever watched is Murdoch Mysteries(peak canadian television) but whatever floats your boat.
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u/Zestyclose_Glass_809 Apr 19 '26
The implication of not seeing through their lies is ignorance to their accountability and competence. Well you did repeat the very thing mainstream media has been spouting about Pierre for the last 6 months or so.
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u/Claus-Buchi Apr 19 '26
What’s the very thing the main stream media has been spouting about Pierre? I do not follow Canadian politics that closely.
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u/Zestyclose_Glass_809 Apr 19 '26
I dunno, maybe that the conservatives should drop Pierre as leader. They seem to think the conservatives have lost support on account of a few floor crossers, but in reality there was monetary pressure from carney to persuade their floor crossing decisions.
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u/LongRoadNorth Apr 19 '26
Whining and moaning about floor crossers when they've previously supported it when it benefited them but suddenly don't because they're bleeding MPs?
The cons and liberals are merely in a race for who can tell the most lies while making enough noise to ignore when they're called out on it.
And no I do not support the floor crossings and agree they should have to step down and run in a by election. But I absolutely fucking hate the hypocrisy of conservatives complaining about it now when Harper and Pierre both supported it when it benefitted their party. Don't act like for a second the cons wouldn't welcome in any floor crossers tomorrow.
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u/LongRoadNorth Apr 19 '26
Oh boy, this is going to be entertaining to see how it goes in this echo chamber where firearms are the only thing that matters.
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u/BigGuy204 Apr 20 '26
Idk I’m a bit left leaning so is my brother and we both agree that this is an absolute waste of time, money and resources that could be put to a lot better use. Also it’s never going to address the fact that we have a basically unsecured border with the largest gun producing and owning nation in the world by far. Never mind the fact that legal gun owners as a whole are by far the most law abiding group of people in this country so idk I think it’s all a waste of time and just seems like virtue signalling bullshit like hey look here look at all the good we are doing while currently doing fuck all. Sorry about the lack of punctuation and if I stated the same point multiple times.
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u/canuckguy89 Apr 19 '26
Liberals think guns and gun culture is homogeneous across the world. They think the people who own guns and the gun culture and even the laws in Canada are the same as Texas.
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u/_JohnDeer mohawk Apr 19 '26
Most liberals are centred in or around urban areas, they see responsible gun owners as rural/farmers or First Nations wayy up north. This is what I gathered from my college and university peers. I tell them there like 2 shooting clubs/ranges not further then a 5 mins drive off campus. A lot of them don’t care to educate themselves on basic firearms laws and practices here. So when they hear about gun violence in a city. They think some bad guy went and bought a legal why ever to commit their crime. Not knowing most guns used for gun related crimes are either stolen, smuggled or prohibited. I was talking with a criminologist guest lecturer about it, he said it was Labeling theory. Because there isn’t a big public gun culture here, being only possible in the community or family setting, people who aren’t into guys or care make massive generalizations. The few Toronto students I know used to think you could CCW a pistol or use a shotgun for self defence. I tell them you can’t legally get pistols anymore for the foreseeable future they think I’m lying because all the gun crime is mostly handguns. I’m not a liberal, nor am I a conservative. These are just my observations from liberal friends, peers and teachers. Most are willing to have a discussion, sort of, but at least for me. I was treated very differently once people knew I was a gun owner.
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u/WinterOrb69 Apr 19 '26
I don't base my identity on politics and guns. The fanatics always amuse me.
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u/Sweetchildofmine88 Apr 19 '26
I consider myself slightly left of centre, but the Overton window has moved so far to either extremes that my moderate views sometimes end up being considered radical.
I’m a former American. I like guns as precision instruments and tools for hunting. For a while, i thought maybe we should have tools to defend ourselves when I saw how tyrannical the republicans down south were getting, but then I realized that I’m not going to be shooting down drones with my shotgun. The time to stop the west from becoming a surveillance state ended maybe 2 decades ago. Your real weapons are where you spend your money and the organizations you help fund. While I agree with the sentiment behind C21, I do believe the compensation needs to be appropriate.
I lived through the shooting on Virginia Beach and I watched families devastated by Sandy hook. From experience, I can tell you that it’s near impossible to judge the state of one’s mental health. Some of the psychological coping mechanisms make it impossible to tell what’s actually going on in people’s minds. That being said, a bulk of mass shooters are always right of centre and fall under the less educated category. I would not trust them with firearms, especially semi automatics that they can cosplay with.
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u/Callie7680 Apr 19 '26
You agree with c21? Why is that? Do you feel freezing the sale of handguns for legal owners has slowed down the gun crime in Canada? Even a little?
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u/Sweetchildofmine88 Apr 19 '26
My comments are based on my experiences. My cousin was shot in a road rage incident in Virginia and a handgun was used. To this day, no arrests have been made and the police have no suspects.
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u/Callie7680 Apr 19 '26
My cousin was hit by a drunk driver and is now paralyzed from the waist down. Do we ban cars? Also. I’m sorry to hear about your cousin.
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u/tesseractivism Apr 19 '26
There are partisan Liberal Party liberals, liberals genuinely left of centre on a clutch of pet issues but really not that different than others with a mosaic of notions and biases, and then there are the liberals labeled as such because they are not one whom the observing conservative would ever invite to their bybbq. Which variety were you thinking of and is it likely they hang here? (other than those trying to add to the complications of owning FA's, that is)
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u/Murray3-Dvideos Apr 19 '26
The more interesting question to ask here is that how many of these Liberals voted for Trudeau as well ? lol. They are either previous NDP / Conservatives voters that flipped for Carney. OR they REPEATEDLY voted for that imbecile.... which tells you everything you need to know about what kind of Canadian they are.
single issue LGBTQ voters are exempt from the criticism, I get it
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u/Cloudayo Apr 19 '26
I grew up in Vancouver proper and lived there until I was about 28 and currently live on Vancouver Island. I voted for Trudeau (the first time, abstained his second time around) and voted for Carney, been relatively left leaning my whole life. I've also had a PAL/RPAL most of my adult life and grew up around firearms as my dad was an avid collector. I don't support the current gun bans, most of my liberal/ndp leaning friends also don't support it. I, and many other left leaning people still have no idea why Carney is still supporting this.
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u/Top_Importance6216 Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 19 '26
Hi, leftist gun owner here, a responsibly armed populace is neccesary to preserve the rights and freedoms of all citizens, firearms have a deep part in the formation and success of this nation, and remain a fundamental part of many people's lives in both sport and feeding their families. The government has long overreached with what has always been statistically disproven, political theater, and I for one cannot support a system that so casually disregards the freedoms of its citizens.
If we have the right to safety and security, we have the right to the means of how that is accomplished. Banning firearms based on fear based political rhetoric is so illogical it hurts. We do not have the same culture that exists down south. Our solutions shouldn't be for problems we dont have. I can live with being limited to semi auto, but beyond that piss off, none of your concern.
Scrap the gun grab, scrap the OIC's, reinvest that funding towards mental health support and housing, and Carney wins the mandate of heaven.
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u/Barbarian_818 Apr 19 '26
I grew up in and around the gay community in Toronto. I attend a Wiccan/pagan event every year because my mother is one of the organizers and my wife is a pagan. It has become our annual summer vacation.
Suffice to say I know a bit about the liberal/progressive mindset.
1) they almost universally know nothing about firearms beyond what they see in the media. Prejudice and misconceptions about firearms abound. To some, any black rifle with a detachable box magazine is a "machine gun" or "assault weapon". Meanwhile, movies that depict farmers, ranch life or indigenous hunting almost always show a bolt action rifle with wood furniture. Thus, in their minds, there are "bad guns" and "somewhat acceptable" guns. It's worth noting that you virtually never see proper storage and handling of firearms depicted.
2) "What do you want a gun for???" (This was said to me by my own mother once) They conflate this bad/good metric with the gun owners themselves. Anyone who wants a gun is automatically suspect. Anyone who wants a "tactical" looking firearm is probably secretly planning something malign. Anyone who gets into tactical shooting is "obviously" engaging in murder practice.
3) on a per capita basis, cities really aren't that rife with gun crime. (No, really!) But just through sheer numbers, there are going to be more shootings in Toronto than in Owen Sound every year. And they make the news every time. If some farmer shoots his wife outside of Timmins, that might make the news for a day. But a drug deal gone bad in the Jane and Finch region gets on the news for several days. That builds this assumption that the cities are concrete jungles getting more violent every day. Toronto is a much safer place today than the 70s and 80s when I was a kid. But it doesn't feel* safer to them. So "we need gun control" always plays well.
4) we are in a time when right wing extremism is on the rise. There are many who believe that "the gun lobby", shooting sports and firearms ownership are effectively a machine to recruit, indoctrinate and radicalize people. As a result, killing the firearms industry and gun culture itself is seen as a necessary step to eliminate the spree shooters and self appointed militias who dream of violent action.
5) I've seen some folks dramatically under estimate the risk posed by wild animals. And since they are mostly dead set against the fur industry, they don't empathize with a trapper who might have to deliver a coup de grace to a trapped animal, scare off scavenging wolves or deter a beat that might have never seen a human being before.
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u/IronGigant Apr 19 '26
I generally lean left, and I generally believe this whole gun ban and buyback scheme is bonkers, due to the whole arbitrarily criminalising formerly legal gun owners for checks notes having scary looking guns.
I think guns are neat, because I'm very mechanically inclined and I work with my hands for a living. Guns are like Lego to me.
The bans, and C21 in general are about as useless as you can get, especially while our current justice system is essentially catch-and-release for repeat offenders, even ones in possession of illegal firearms.
ALL that being said, gun ownership isn't a right in Canada, and I don't think it should be. It's a privilege and always should be. Privileges can be taken away, which they have been, albeit for the wrong reasons, and I'll continue to pester my MP about that point, for as long as the data says that C21 and the ban remains ineffective in lowering gun crime.
Also, I'm in the CAF. Through my service, I see some really cool, BIG guns. If you're so adamant on having access to guns, join up, and put your ammo-sexual tendencies to good use.
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u/IronGigant Apr 19 '26
Hey, where'd you go, u/HaloReachEnjoyer7. You got me all hot and bothered for a debate!
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Apr 19 '26
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u/IronGigant Apr 19 '26
Searing rebuttle, bud.
Meanwhile, C7 go brrrrrrr
I burn ammo on your tax dollar, and I'm cringe?
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Apr 19 '26
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u/IronGigant Apr 19 '26
This has ruined my Sunday and I shant recover for at least a fortnight.
Also, why do you keep editing/censoring your replies?
Let fly, dude.
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Apr 19 '26
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u/IronGigant Apr 19 '26
Hey, if we were in America, that'd make me a shoo-in for SecDef.
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Apr 19 '26
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u/IronGigant Apr 20 '26
Maybe you want to exercise a different letter of the alphabet. C is getting a bit tired. I completely understand if that might be a bit of a struggle though, no judgement.
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u/swpz01 Apr 20 '26
Joining the CAF if you want access to guns is a paraphrase of what Himmler said about the German people to justify banning guns, something along the lines of "Germans who wish to use guns should join the SS".
Why do you think usage of guns should be largely in the service of the state?
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u/IronGigant Apr 20 '26
As much as this community would like to think otherwise, we're not a fascist state.
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u/swpz01 Apr 21 '26
That's exactly what a fascist state would say.
Anyhow, you didn't answer the question. Why should people who want to access guns join the CAF?
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u/IronGigant Apr 21 '26
For access and proximity to cool guns?
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u/swpz01 Apr 21 '26
Why should people not have access to the same guns without joining?
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u/IronGigant Apr 21 '26
The access comes with training and total accountability.
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u/swpz01 Apr 21 '26
Accountability already exists in the form of the justice system.
There's no need to join an organization wherein one can be shipped off to be fodder simply to have access to firearms.
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u/IronGigant Apr 21 '26
You for sure have more trust in the justice system than I do...
And the Reserves exist.
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u/swpz01 Apr 21 '26
The justice system exists for accountability. Unless things have changed drastically, Canada is still a benefit of the doubt and innocent until proven guilty country.
Reserves can be called into active anytime. Again, why should someone need to agree to the risk of being shipped off to be fodder (and frankly, to murder people on behalf of the state) just because they want to shoot guns at paper?
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u/rastamasta45 Apr 19 '26
There’s really not much to say other than liberals who support these laws are most likely ideological morons. That’s it, you either understand facts and data or you don’t, or worse, you refuse to because it goes against your beliefs.
I’m also a firm believer that liberals that support these laws generally tend to be losers or who don’t have much property or family in life or have disposable polyamory relationships. Because you actually accumulate wealth and work hard to make your make on this planet, you will be willing to defend your property at any means. Libtards tend to say “you shouldn’t shoot someone over a tv”. These people probably only have a discount tv at their most expensive item and no family.
I’m not taking the chance to find out if Mr burglar also wants to rape my wife and then steal all my valuables.
If you’re an “LPC voter” but you literally have zero understanding of gun laws than fine, I don’t hate you because the party makes sure you don’t understand, our own public safety minister doesn’t even know what a pal is. However I do judge you because unless you’re a property owner exploiting shit rent to tenants, how could you vote those assholes in again.
But if you’re an LPC voter that actually believes c21 is good, than you’re an ideological zealot moron that I want zero association with. These are the same dumbasses that are saying “I’m ready to fight an American invasion” while actively supporting the disarming of their fellow citizens. These people are beyond help and I’m disgusted by them.
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u/Enough_Challenge7264 Apr 19 '26
You're misunderstanding the whole dynamic. It's not about crime, it's not about public safety, it's not even about guns. What it's about is exercising power over over a political enemy. It's about making themselves (gun ban activists) feel virtuous and righteous. Unchecked, it's the exact same psychology that tears down a bronze of John A. MacDonald, or torches a church...changes the name of a University or town square. None of these objects did anything to the people who oppose them...the people just oppose them and feel entitled to destroy them. THAT is what this is about. It's sick, it's very, very, dangerous if allowed to continue (that's why I have confidence the Supremes, who see through all their bullshit, will correct them legally.) Again, so long as you think it's about guns or safety, you're right where they want you. Debating their disingenuous rationalizations. Don't play their game. Call it out for what it is; TYRANNY.
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u/Callie7680 Apr 19 '26
I don’t disagree with anything you said. I’m just trying to hear both sides. My algorithm is very much far right lol. I’d like to hear what liberals have to say about this subject
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u/LongRoadNorth Apr 19 '26
I love comparing algorithms. My friend who doesn't even own guns has a far right one. Me, a gun owner, my algorithm is full of either Marxist far left shit, goth girls, or whiskey...
Mind you the far left Marxist stuff I get is in full support of firearms, literally suggesting arming to fight the right
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u/ovjho Apr 19 '26
I can KINDA answer this, although less and less.
In the past, I had refused to vote conservative strictly because my MP, Cheryl Gallant, isn’t my choice for representation (to put it lightly, iykyk). With this in mind, I’d vote between NDP and Liberal depending on the year. Therefore, I considered myself liberal or at least fairly left of centre.
To me, things felt mostly fine during Trudeau’s first term, but went off the rails in the second entirely (to be clear, vaccines work and the truckers can fuck off, especially the dickheads who thought they could just show up and “negotiate terms” with the gov, as far as I’m concerned that’s treason). With the absolute embarrassment the NDP became and the liberals deciding to create policy based on feels, I had to vote conservative.
Guns were never, and should never, be the single issue to vote on. However, guns are a perfect example of everything that was wrong with the previous government, all on a single issue.
Non experts are making all the decisions. The cost is astronomical. At the end of the day, the policies being pushed won’t impact anyone they should, only those that it shouldn’t. Elected representatives are ignoring hard facts to push a narrative based on feels. The gun issue ticks every box of things a bad government can do. All of this about an issue that wasn’t broken before, while there’s much more important things our government should be solving.
Honestly I’d still say I consider myself slightly left of centre, but all the parties seem to have shuffled and lost the plot to the point that I guess that now overlaps with conservative.
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u/thxxx1337 Apr 19 '26
I'm not a liberal, but I just wanted to mention that when I marched with ccfr in 2020, there were several locals who supported our cause, even those who don't like guns had signs or cheered on occasion.
I'm from Ottawa and the general consensus is mostly neutral/ spend the money on route causes. Unless you're antigun or progun, you're not thinking about guns
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u/_Connor Apr 19 '26
"If removing all the guns saves a single life then I don't care what the cost of the confiscation program is"
An opinion that gets thrown around quite a lot on /r/Canada
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u/Ill_Location4524 Apr 20 '26
Half of the left’s useful idiots either believe the party line about reducing gun violence, or don’t care enough to spend any energy mentally interrogating it. The other half just hate guns and don’t care whether the party line is true or not, so long as the notional outcome is less guns.
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u/falcon1423 Apr 21 '26
I think the laws and legislations around firearms needs to be completely revamped. For starters remove any bans implemented since 2020.
The initial course for your non restricted should have more mental health screening to possibly aid the the on going issue of suicide in our country. Now don’t quote me but last time I had taken a dive into this subject that was the leading cause of gun deaths by legally acquired firearms.
I also believe the silencers and barrel length plus magazine restrictions should be changed. If a legal gun owner decides one day he’s going to commit violence on someone they are not going to load up 4 mags with 5 rounds they are drilling the rivits. Takes minutes for the entire process. It does nothing other than give them a feeling of control.
There should be a minimum amount of time between each course. Get your non restricted, wait a year now you can go for your restricted then wait another year and get your prohibited. Forces patience. Additionally I think the scores required for the written and physical test (proving safe) should be 95% and the tests should be harder I’m of average intelligence I did not study or look up anything before hand. I passed with 100% on both sections with ease. I had got my possession license at 14. Then instead of retesting all I had to do was have it renewed at 18 to then get my pal. You should absolutely have to be retested.
There should be no way to have the 1 week wait period shortened when buying restricted firearms. It defeats the purpose of the wait if you can be allowed to pick up by next day and honestly it builds excitement for that first range date.
Self defense laws need major reworking as civilians we are not trained on reasonable force. If someone breaks into your house your first thoughts shouldn’t be does he have a weapon. Can I escape how can I reasonably defend my self it should be to be how can I protect my family. One to many punches retuned to someone who came at you and all of a sudden you have assault charges if you have a pal and you value owning guns the safest option is to essentially run and hide. Additionally lack luster self defense laws creates a climate where people are afraid to defend themselves because of possible repercussions and criminals no this and take advantage of it because if everyone is to afraid to fight back what’s stoping you from taking what you want.
Finally I think fire arms need to be talked about publicly much more often to remove the stigma around them. If more people knew more they would have wildly different opinions.
TLDR: legalize suppressors. Remove magizne caps and barrel restrictions. Testing should be more thorough. Self defense laws need serious attention. Firearms need more presentation in a positive way
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u/Maxx0rz Apr 23 '26
I'm a progressive lefty and I think these oic bans and all these new rules, taking away our handgun sales, our ARS, it's all bullshit. Nothing but bullshit. It protects no one, it helps no one, it saves no one.
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u/fartsNdoom Apr 23 '26
Step one: Ignore the history of numerous nations disarming the populace before the government inflicts untold horrors on the people.
Step two: ???
Step three: Profit!
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u/Alone_Damage_1667 Apr 24 '26
I’m liberal and here is my opinion: Fuck Poly and fuck these gun bans
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u/theawesomedude646 Apr 19 '26
i agree with the liberals regarding their economic and international policies which i have to prioritize over what is ultimately a hobby, even if it's a very major one for me.
hate their stance on guns though. firearms should not be a bipartisian issue.
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u/Callie7680 Apr 19 '26
You agree with all the foreign aid we’re giving away?
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u/Infinite_Price_3550 Apr 19 '26
Looks like you do want to get into politics outside of guns😜
Edit: lolz nevermind I just read your other comment.
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u/Callie7680 Apr 19 '26
Naw I’m trying to stop debating politics for the most part with strangers lol
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u/Infinite_Price_3550 Apr 19 '26
No! Let’s yell at strangers on the internet!!!!!!!😂 (curse word, name calling, racism!!!!)
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u/theawesomedude646 Apr 19 '26
man i'm 20, voted NDP and a socialist.
personally, i'd be fine with donating most of my wages to the government even if it ends up as international aid. to me, taxes are the engine that drives the best of science and technological progression, and the largest charity that operates in any given nation. put simply, they're what lets a nation be great.
I'll just leave it at that, you can DM me if you want to talk more.
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u/TurbulentEconomist65 Apr 19 '26
Murder is already banned/illegal. With the liberal logic, there should theoretically be NO NEED to ban firearms.
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u/AdeptArt Apr 19 '26
We had an AMA on this a while back exactly for the question you asked, unfortunately it kind of turned into a train wreck.
For what it’s worth though: https://www.reddit.com/r/canadaguns/comments/1s7qah2/im_a_active_liberal_party_member_and_gun_owner_we/