Stand on Guard - Conservative Party of Canada

[u/GhostProtocolGaming]

https://www.conservative.ca/stand-on-guard-2/

The bill makes important changes to Section 34 of the Criminal Code so that force is presumed to be justified if used against an illegal intruder. Conservatives first announced the ‘Stand on Guard’ principle back in August, asking the government to introduce legislation in the fall session.

[u/Spydude84]

With a liberal majority, no way this passes.

[u/LongRoadNorth → u/[deleted]]

Without a drastic change in the conservative party, they will not be getting a majority any time soon with Pierre.

It's just the conservatives saying shit to sound like they care.

I don't understand why so many seem to think the conservatives aren't politicians and even if they got a majority they wouldn't completely back track on how many promises like every politician does.

They had plenty of time when Harper was pm to make changes, did they? No, because they're just as full of shit as the liberals are.

[u/Lumindan → u/LongRoadNorth]

Without a drastic change in the conservative party, they will not be getting a majority any time soon with Pierre.

With respect, I pretty much disagree with your post in a couple of ways, also the timelines and framing are pretty off base. I feel like I've seen you make this post before; not that I can check with your hidden comments but I could've sworn I've responded to it and debunked it. But hey, round 2 lets go.

The whole "Pierre is bad for the party" must be the newest goal post shift I've seen now that he's passed his internal evaluation. But sure, let's wish the party would decapitate itself and turn into what the NDP is right now. Seems like a great move.

They had plenty of time when Harper was pm to make changes, did they? No, because they're just as full of shit as the liberals are.

This is just wrong, you're mixing up your timelines and ignoring that Stephen Harper didn’t have a majority government until 2011. From 2006–2011 he was running minority governments where every bill had to survive opposition parties threatening elections. Acting like he had unlimited power for a decade is just historically wrong.

Also, remind me who killed the long gun registry?

Also saying that harper didn't do anything is a full on lie / misinfo.

Off the top of my head, they did implement a number of major promises once they had the votes. They Eliminated the wasteful Long-gun registry in 2012 (2 billion dollars btw, thanks Poly and Liberals), They passed tougher sentencing laws through the Safe Streets and Communities Act (which remind me who ran back immediately?), they cut the GST from 7% to 5%, which was a direct campaign promise and balanced the federal budget by 2015 after the global recession triggered by the 2008 financial crisis. Remind me what our deficit is at now?

It's just the conservatives saying shit to sound like they care.

Oh it's conservatives bad. Okay gotcha. You make this post as if every political party doesn't have an agenda, cmon man.

I don't understand why so many seem to think the conservatives aren't politicians and even if they got a majority they wouldn't completely back track on how many promises like every politician does.

This argument is basically just cynical hand-waving. If you apply that standard consistently, it would also mean you shouldn’t believe anything the Liberals promise either, including the policies the same critics usually defend.

So your post boils down to ignoring the historical record, assume every promise is fake (because grr cons bad), and conclude Conservatives are uniquely dishonest. That’s not analysis at all it’s just partisan cynicism dressed up as an argument.

[u/A_Kazur → u/Lumindan]

Pierre looked at Doug Ford crushing the Ontario election by taking an anti-Trump protectionist stance and then decided he could do better by acting like Trump’s friend.

Regardless of which you consider the wiser financial move one of these people won and the other lost so badly polls that had called the election 99% in his favour a month prior almost forgot he existed.

He lost his own riding, lmao. He should have resigned. But no, he’s got his favourites in the leadership debates and desperately wants to achieve something.

It’s not going to work, and your comment on the NDP is hilarious, Pierre has done more to relegate the Cons to third party than anyone in living memory. He keeps losing, he alienates voters, he got Cons to CROSS THE AISLE and it’s looking likely Carney will get a majority soon. Him literally resigning would have almost certainly prevented this situation.

He is a one trick pony who can’t pivot from Trudeau. It’s crazy because the Cons had such a great opportunity to flip so many regions. (I have a huge amount of family who have been diehard NDPers their whole lives but watching Jagmeet collude with Trudeau got the so angry the only thing preventing them from voting Con was Pierre sucking up to Trump while he was starting his tariff wars and 51st state bullshit.

The Cons desperately need a new younger face who can actually hold a dynamic conversation, or they’ll guarantee a Liberal majority for the next decade.

[u/Lumindan → u/A_Kazur]

Pierre looked at Doug Ford crushing the Ontario election by taking an anti-Trump protectionist stance and then decided he could do better by acting like Trump’s friend.

Misinformation. Both major canadian parties pushed back on Trump.

Regardless of which you consider the wiser financial move one of these people won and the other lost so badly polls that had called the election 99% in his favour a month prior almost forgot he existed.

and we're in a bit of a pickle now aren't we?

He lost his own riding, lmao. He should have resigned. But no, he’s got his favourites in the leadership debates and desperately wants to achieve something.

I always see this posted and it's basically rooting for one party to decapitate itself so theres no chance of opposition in Canada. It's so undemocratic it's not even funny. I'm sure Fanjoy is feeling good now that all his constituents are getting fired / laid off, but yeah Pierre bad I guess.

It’s not going to work, and your comment on the NDP is hilarious, Pierre has done more to relegate the Cons to third party than anyone in living memory. He keeps losing, he alienates voters, he got Cons to CROSS THE AISLE and it’s looking likely Carney will get a majority soon. Him literally resigning would have almost certainly prevented this situation.

The Conservatives have long faced structural challenges in urban and Quebec ridings. No single leader can instantly flip that, he made strides in plenty of parts of Canada that the conservatives broke ground in. Also calling them the third party while looking at the current seat count is certainly a choice. But hey, vibes for everyone!

Pierre caused cons to cross? Is that what the argument is now? They definitely didn't get any kind of incentives to leave. It's funny you're framing this as Pierre bad when even NDP MPs flipped seats. If he had resigned nothing would have changed, we'd just have the conservative party collapse on itself.

He is a one trick pony who can’t pivot from Trudeau. It’s crazy because the Cons had such a great opportunity to flip so many regions. (I have a huge amount of family who have been diehard NDPers their whole lives but watching Jagmeet collude with Trudeau got the so angry the only thing preventing them from voting Con was Pierre sucking up to Trump while he was starting his tariff wars and 51st state bullshit.

If you're bound to repeat the same "Pierre supports Trump" as your core argument, there's no real discussion to be had.

The Cons desperately need a new younger face who can actually hold a dynamic conversation, or they’ll guarantee a Liberal majority for the next decade.

Cutting the head off the party is the reason we'd see a Liberal majority for another two decades.

[u/A_Kazur → u/Lumindan]

Bro it’s insane how cultist you guys are? I’m not talking about the Cons as a party I AM TALKING ABOUT PIERRE! Don’t mix them up. Beheading the party leadership?!? You understand that a healthy party goes through different leaders instead of sucking up to the same idiot who loses consistently?

You’re excusing Pierre by saying the job is hard?! Duh?!

Absolutely clearer what has Pierre done at all during the election campaign to oppose Trump, Trump tariffs, or Trump 51st state posturing? Nothing?

If this is bait you are a master.

[u/Livid_sumo → u/Lumindan]

Dawg you can type as much as you want it wont reflect the reality of the conservative party.

[u/gamercast1337 → u/Lumindan]

So let's run all our politicians on anti American rhetoric... solid idea.  

[u/Livid_sumo → u/[deleted]]

Ummmmmm.

[u/A_Kazur → u/[deleted]]

Uh… that’s not an accurate reflection of what happened in the least lmao? Were you around for last election? Genuinely?

[u/gspotcowboy → u/A_Kazur]

It's not worth it. If we aren't arguing with bots then they have the intellectual literacy of one. They think that Carney is a radical left winger ffs

[u/Moist-Wolverine-8531 → u/A_Kazur]

u/HugeFun is either a troll, an idiot, a bot, or all of the above.

He thinks India is in Southeast Asia. 🤣

[u/Moist-Wolverine-8531 → u/[deleted]]

No, dude, it's just you... the lonely frog in the well. Observing you is both sad and funny at the same time. Goodbye. 👋

[u/Duckriders4r → u/Lumindan]

Harper never balanced the budget. As soon as he got his majority he started dismantling every government sector that would progress and improve things for everyday Canadians. Tried to dismantle our banking system to what the us has. Nothing you've said is true. Military veterans centers closed and funding slashed. Military funding slashed to a absolutely fucking pathetic level of 1.1% of GDP. Then, once the liberals got into power with trudeau, and he started putting money back into veteran centers.And the military, which the conservatives voted against in the house of commons, every step of the way. And then just a few years after that, criticizing the same prime minister who has already spent double of actual money, not in percentage of g d p.But actual money into the military and raising it to just below one point four percent of g d p now don't forget g d p.Raises all the time. Bro, you need to stop reading those conspiracy Websites.

[u/Lumindan → u/Duckriders4r]

I don't know why you're digging through week old threads posting misinformation. I'll humour it and break it all down because my goodness there's alot wrong here.

Harper never balanced the budget.

Objectively wrong. Harper did in fact balance the budget in 2015. There was even a CBC article indicating he did it, but here's the official government source from Canada.ca; You can argue how it was achieved (asset sales, timing, etc.), but pretending it didn’t happen just makes you look uninformed. Or did the government just lie about 1.4 billion?

As soon as he got his majority he started dismantling every government sector that would progress and improve things for everyday Canadians. Tried to dismantle our banking system to what the us has.

Do you know how you balance an insane deficit? It's called making pragmatic cuts. You can't simply afford to keep burning money if you want to actually balance a budget. People like you, who are still screaming harper bad have zero economic understand. The claim that he “tried to dismantle our banking system to what the US has” is pure fantasy. Canada’s banking system is regulated through institutions like the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions remained intact and is literally famous for surviving the 2008 crisis better than the U.S. If there was some grand deregulation scheme, he would've iced it.

Military funding slashed to a absolutely fucking pathetic level of 1.1% of GDP. Then, once the liberals got into power with trudeau, and he started putting money back into veteran centers

Throwing around percentages without context is amateur hour. Under Harper, spending rose significantly in absolute terms during the Afghanistan era. Under Justin Trudeau, yes, total dollar spending increased but that’s partly because everything gets more expensive over time and GDP grows. Saying “double the money” without adjusting for inflation, commitments already planned, or procurement timelines is meaningless spin.

And then just a few years after that, criticizing the same prime minister who has already spent double of actual money, not in percentage of g d p.But actual money into the military and raising it to just below one point four percent of g d p now don't forget g d p.Raises all the time.

I don't understand this point, so the government overspent and put us into crippling debt? Did you just selectively ignore that Trudeau's own financial staff out loud said they blew past the guard rails and we're currently in a 80 billion decifit?

It's wild that you'll criticize harper and somehow say Trudeau was good for Canada when we've had a decade of absolute dip. I also really like the "harper hates vets", remind me which government is taking them to court? Hint, it wasn't harper. Or you know, when they forgot to spend 105 million on vets and reinjected it back into the budget while people were making their claims? Oh look, it wasnt harper either

I find it especially bad you're trying to lean on the vets thing because Harper closed like 8 or 9 offices but rotated the staff. Meanwhile 'Grossly unfair': Disabled veterans take pension battle with Liberals to Supreme Court

Bro, you need to stop reading those conspiracy Websites.

I didn't realize sourcing the Canadian government's own data and CBC, global and stats Canada made me some kind of conspiracy nut. Your whole rant is partisan fanfiction with a couple of real facts stapled onto it but zero narrative context. If you dislike Harper, cool, get over it, it's been a decade. But please keep pushing that partisan 'conservatives' bad non-sense in old threads, it only shows how off base you really are.

You do not have an argument there, you have a tantrum with a few buzzwords bolted on and it's sad really.

[u/ScanData32 → u/LongRoadNorth]

It's just the conservatives saying shit to sound like they care.

Like this very press release?

[u/Perfect_Diamond_1128 → u/[deleted]]

are we ever going to get a conservative majority ever again? or have the liberals imported too many voters at this point where its basically impossible

[u/The_King_of_Canada → u/[deleted]]

The Liberals won. No question. The greens are reduced to one the bloq was decimated the NDP are down to 6 and the CPC keep bleeding MPs to the Liberals because a decade of sensationalist attack politics left them in the same place they were 10 years ago but with a worse leader.

The Liberals won and with PP at the helm the CPC can only lose.

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[u/ljackstar → u/Perfect_Diamond_1128]

The only way they never get a majority again is if the country ceases to exist. As long as the liberals are in power they are going to screw somethings up and at some point people start to care. That could be next year, it could be 4 years, but it will definitely happen again.

[u/Livid_sumo → u/[deleted]]

Just more American talking points entering Canadian politics

[u/thecoolernameistaken → u/Perfect_Diamond_1128]

Nah dude look at the rest of the Canadian subs. They’re praising carney for everything (lol) he’s done so far

[u/The_King_of_Canada → u/[deleted]]

Seriously? Look at the polls. Everyone loves Carney. PP isnt even popular with his party he just has a death grip on it and his inability to change or let go is costing us. The Liberals are going to be a majority any day now and they have the support to back it up.

[u/Lumindan → u/The_King_of_Canada]

PP isnt even popular with his party he just has a death grip on it and his inability to change or let go is costing us

You say us but you've done nothing but glaze Carney.

The Liberals are going to be a majority any day now and they have the support to back it up.

A majority via floor crossing multiple parties' MPs would certainly be a historic moment in Canada.

[u/The_King_of_Canada → u/Lumindan]

Thats because Carney has the sense to defend Canada against US rhetoric. Mans building our economy in ways Pierre cant dream of. And hes got the polls to back him up. Mans decent and popular. PP is neither.

The best way i can put it is that PP is CPC teudeau. A sensationalist party line guy. Carney just shows competency.

[u/Lumindan → u/The_King_of_Canada]

Thats because Carney has the sense to defend Canada against US rhetoric. Mans building our economy in ways Pierre cant dream of. And hes got the polls to back him up. Mans decent and popular. PP is neither.

It's always fun to see you guys come crawling out of the woodwork. I keep hearing about building the economy but so far all we've seen is them push tax cuts (a huge cost to the budget) and agreements to CONSIDER trade deals. 80 Billion deficit btw while we're still running gun grabs and feel good virtue signalling programs btw.

The best way i can put it is that PP is CPC teudeau. A sensationalist party line guy. Carney just shows competency.

I don't even know where to start / how to address this.

It's pretty clear you're very much locked onto your party of choice, I wish you the best of luck because there's no changing your mind with these cooked partisan takes.

[u/The_King_of_Canada → u/Lumindan]

I keep hearing about building the economy but so far all we've seen is them push tax cuts

Theoretically more money for people to spend means a stronger economy.

and agreements to CONSIDER trade deals

Depends on the country. China? The US? Yes. South Korea? Germany? India? No. Those are real trade deals.

80 Billion deficit btw while we're still running gun grabs and feel good virtue signalling programs btw.

Yea. We should stop the buyback repeal all the OICs and the handgun freeze to pump billions back into our economy. Agreed.

It's pretty clear you're very much locked onto your party of choice,

No I voted NDP because of the gun thing I stopped voting CPC because I don't have enough hate in my heart to support what they want me to.

I wish you the best of luck because there's no changing your mind with these cooked partisan takes.

Then why did you follow me around this comment section and tell me as much 7 times?

[u/Lumindan → u/The_King_of_Canada]

Theoretically more money for people to spend means a stronger economy.

Only if you look at it with the most absolute surface level view and zero real life conditions. In reality, tax cuts rarely benefit the average joe, it's great for corporations though, will they re-invest in Canada? That's a harder question.

No I voted NDP because of the gun thing I stopped voting CPC because I don't have enough hate in my heart to support what they want me to.

The fact that you're saying you need hate in your heart to justify your voting lean kinda says it all man.

Then why did you follow me around this comment section and tell me as much 7 times?

Because I read your other comments and I realized you're bombing this thread with misinformation so I decided to reply.

Turns out posting nothing but vibes and CPC / PP bad isn't really a strong argument.

[u/Livid_sumo → u/Lumindan]

I mean making trade deals with china (a now more stable economy then the US), settling relations with India, seeking mutual defense pacts from europe (now that the US shit the bed), and opening new weapons manufacturing partners with South Korea among other things isn't nothing. PP doesnt really have the international relations to pull that off, and most Canadians dont see our sport as a big issue unfortunately.

[u/Livid_sumo → u/The_King_of_Canada]

Agreed, its kinda not hard to beat a guy who has no expirience except politics in a time when real policy's matter. Get PP out and somebody good in.... this is obviously not working and somehow the same strategy continues.

This is getting beyond dumb

[u/thecoolernameistaken → u/The_King_of_Canada]

LOL he’s done nothing of the sort. He bent over to the states are you fucking with us?

[u/The_King_of_Canada → u/thecoolernameistaken]

How did he bend over? I see him trying to re-start trade negotiations but no bending over.

[u/nikobruchev → u/The_King_of_Canada]

Let's face it, most of these users hating on Carney would be singing his praises if he was standing in front of a CPC blue banner.

It's the greatest weakness of this sub and the community as a whole - rabid devotion to a party that will pay lip service to the community but never fully back us.

[u/The_King_of_Canada → u/nikobruchev]

Exactly. Hell this Stand on Guard stuff PP is dishing out he only started after the election. And there's no plan. Just more rhetoric and instances for people to get mad over. And I'll bet you he'll drop the issue as soon as it's time to start campaigning again.

[u/Lumindan → u/nikobruchev]

Let's face it, most of these users hating on Carney would be singing his praises if he was standing in front of a CPC blue banner.

This argument assumes criticism of Carney is purely partisan, which just isn’t true. People can disagree with a politician’s policies or track record without it being blind loyalty to another party. If Carney stood under a CPC banner but held the same positions on firearms policy, central banking influence, or economic governance, a lot of the same people would still criticize him.

It's the greatest weakness of this sub and the community as a whole - rabid devotion to a party that will pay lip service to the community but never fully back us.

You could say that about any political party and reddit sub.

The real issue isn’t “rabid devotion” imo. It’s trust built from policy commitments and actions. The firearms community tends to judge parties based on who actually moves the needle on legislation, not who gives nice speeches. Historically, the party that has reversed or promised to reverse firearm restrictions has been the Conservatives, so naturally that’s where most political leverage from the community goes.

Harper killed the LGN, the Liberals decided they wanted another run at firearms votes so here we are. Not rocket science.

[u/WeightedDips95 → u/nikobruchev]

This is the most brain-dead talking point you guys love to use. Its also pure projection.

Ive always been conservative, but I wasnt that bothered when Trudeau was first elected. Theyve shown me over the last 11 years what type of people they are(horrible), and Carney is a continuation of that. He even had a chance to prove us wrong but he hasnt, despite his carefully orchestrated disinfo campaign hes been waging, signing deals! which you have clearly fallen for. If hed actually step up and do the right things, I wouldnt give to sh*ts what banner he runs under.

He by ZERO measure is anything approximating a conservative. Not that that even matters, but you trying to say he is is asinine, and shows your either deeply ignorant, or lying.

[u/BlackElmyr → u/Lumindan]

And this in the breach of parliamentary procedure how? All 3 main parties have benefited from floor crossings at one time or another. I personally don't like them, but they rep their riding and only sit with the party.

[u/Lumindan → u/BlackElmyr]

And this in the breach of parliamentary procedure how?

Did I say it was? I'm not saying floor crossing is a violation of the hard set rules, but in the spirit of it, it's certainly a bit of an odd way to win a majority.

All 3 main parties have benefited from floor crossings at one time or another. I personally don't like them, but they rep their riding and only sit with the party.

I'm of the personal belief that with how hard all parties whip their votes, a by-election should be called if they're gonna cross.

[u/BlackElmyr → u/Lumindan]

No you didn't. You just seemed to complain about it, which is your right. I'm just sick of people complaining about it when they're party looses a seat yet are deathly quiet if not braying about it when they gain one.

The degree to which parties with a sizable war chest are able to pressure their caucus is probably one of the main problems with the Canadian parliamentary system.

[u/Lumindan → u/BlackElmyr]

No you didn't. You just seemed to complain about it, which is your right. I'm just sick of people complaining about it when they're party looses a seat yet are deathly quiet if not braying about it when they gain one.

Yes, because again, in the spirit of it, I feel it's not as public as an election. Backroom dealings in the government never sit well with me as a voter. I like transparency because they're working off my hard earned tax dollars.

You can get fault people for saying it's a violation of our system, that's true. But imo you can't really fault people for feeling emotional about it or feeling that it violates the democratic spirit. It’s a legitimate structural issue in the Canadian parliamentary system, especially if it's a close riding and instead of recounting the votes or running it back given how our voting system has evolved.

The degree to which parties with a sizable war chest are able to pressure their caucus is probably one of the main problems with the Canadian parliamentary system.

That's not going to change anytime soon, we literally have a pay to play government. And if they play the game well, they get cushy consultant positions in the backrooms afterwards.

We ALMOST got past that hurdle but I doubt any party will touch voting reform for the next 20 years.

[u/thecoolernameistaken → u/[deleted]]

I’d agree but bud look at the elections. He still won.

[u/Lumindan → u/thecoolernameistaken]

Given the NDP buckled and the Bloc shit the bed, the conservatives kinda did all they could.

Historically the pendulum always swings.

[u/The_King_of_Canada → u/Lumindan]

Please. All the conservatives had to do was take a hard stance on the US threats like Carney did. Instead they hid from cameras for a week because US corporations are their donors.

Man said he'd sell us out for a shit NAFTA deal and everyone noticed.

[u/Lumindan → u/The_King_of_Canada]

Please. All the conservatives had to do was take a hard stance on the US threats like Carney did. Instead they hid from cameras for a week because US corporations are their donors.

You mean to tell me the Liberals monopolized on a self made crisis and people like you ate it up? yeah that sounds about right. But sure, Conservatives bad.

Man said he'd sell us out for a shit NAFTA deal and everyone noticed.

Negotiating a deal is not the same as “selling out,” by that standard, Carney going hat in hand to the states and letting trump say whatever he wants should be held to the same standard no?

But you won't agree to that because he's your guy.

You're also just ignoring the majority of what happened during the election but hey, PP bAd CoNs BaD.

[u/The_King_of_Canada → u/Lumindan]

You mean to tell me the Liberals monopolized on a self made crisis and people like you ate it up? yeah that sounds about right.

Self made? How on earth was it self made? Trump enacted tariffs for bull shit reasons. Then the LPC tried to placate him and he still kept referring to us as the 51st state and kept the tariffs up.

Negotiating a deal is not the same as “selling out,” by that standard,

It is when it's a terrible deal with no real protections from Trump violating it, again. How can we work out a trade deal with someone not willing to honour it if the mood strikes him?

You're also just ignoring the majority of what happened during the election

Enlighten me.

[u/Lumindan → u/The_King_of_Canada]

Self made? How on earth was it self made? Trump enacted tariffs for bull shit reasons. Then the LPC tried to placate him and he still kept referring to us as the 51st state and kept the tariffs up.

You answered your own comment. Pick a lane, are we standing upto Trump or placating him? It's almost like the smart play was to ignore Trump entirely instead of feeding into the media frenzy.

It is when it's a terrible deal with no real protections from Trump violating it, again. How can we work out a trade deal with someone not willing to honour it if the mood strikes him?

Yeah the states is just ignoring all it's major trade agreements at this very moment. Oh wait no it's not, it's just posturing to feed his base.

Enlighten me.

You're skipping over the Bloc falling apart and the NDP imploding and framing it entirely as "Well the CPC is bad and PP is lame". But sure, keep pushing that narrative you're so desperate to cling to.

[u/Lumindan → u/thecoolernameistaken]

I wouldn't use reddit as a metric.

It's heavily astroturfed / full on echo chambers.

[u/BlackElmyr → u/thecoolernameistaken]

I miss the days when conservatives were logical, less triggered and willing to listen and make course corrections & improvements. Too many of this batch are unwilling to accommodate reality.

[u/Lumindan → u/BlackElmyr]

I miss the days when conservatives were logical, less triggered and willing to listen and make course corrections & improvements. Too many of this batch are unwilling to accommodate reality.

That’s a pretty selective memory of politics. Conservatives haven’t suddenly abandoned logic or reality. Political polarization has increased across the entire spectrum, not just on one side. Acting like only conservatives became “triggered” ignores how partisan politics works today.

It's kind of a backhanded comment really to only say it's one side. Then again at least partisan posting is still the same as per usual.

[u/BlackElmyr → u/Lumindan]

Oh really. People have gotten down voted for contradicting other posts , by merely pointing out facts, that for the last several months Canadians have viewed Carney favourably. You don't have to be partisan to acknowledge reality but you do ignore it.

The fact the post that talked to actual polling data in a non-confrontational way got down voted, while at the time, the stain pushing replacement theory trash was not, is fairly indicative of the reality too many of this batch of supposed conservatives are eager to accept.

[u/Lumindan → u/BlackElmyr]

Oh really. People have gotten down voted for contradicting other posts , by merely pointing out facts, that for the last several months Canadians have viewed Carney favourably. You don't have to be partisan to acknowledge reality but you do ignore it.

and you selectively ignored the latter half of my post to where I went "political polarization has increased across the spectrum". it kinda just proves my point. Trying to smear just one group when everyone in politics does the same shit regardless of lean is exactly why you're off base.

The fact the post that talked to actual polling data in a non-confrontational way got down voted, while at the time, the stain pushing replacement theory trash was not, is fairly indicative of the reality too many of this batch of supposed conservatives are eager to accept.

People viewing Mark Carney favourably in some polls over the last few months isn’t some irrefutable truth everyone must bow to because they're just polls and polling shifts constantly. Canadians have also viewed Justin Trudeau and Pierre Pollierve favourably at times remember how that worked out? Selectively citing polls you like and calling it “reality” isn’t objectivity, it’s cherry-picking. The only poll a lot of folks care for is election day.

Pretending the downvotes were because someone pointed out facts is just a big self report. People don’t downvote because numbers exist lol they downvote when someone drops into a discussion acting smug about it or if they feel like it or if they like pressing the button. If you stroll in with a “the data proves you idiots wrong” tone, don’t act shocked when people respond accordingly or better yet, why do you even care about down votes and up votes, it's the internet lol.

is fairly indicative of the reality too many of this batch of supposed conservatives are eager to accept.

You don't really get to play the "people downvoted it! Oh my stars!" when you're also bashing conservatives in the same post. Throwing stones in a glass house right there mate.

[u/BlackElmyr → u/Lumindan]

You're putting my criticism of many current conservatives on the same plane as those conservatives disapproving of posts criticizing replacement theory. OK. Well at least we know where you stand.

[u/Lumindan → u/BlackElmyr]

You're putting my criticism of many current conservatives on the same plane as those conservatives disapproving of posts criticizing replacement theory. OK. Well at least we know where you stand.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of blatant 'conservatives bad' posts when it's multiple camps committing the same sin you're so eager to put on one party.

You're literally making my point with your posts.

[u/BlackElmyr → u/Lumindan]

And you've made mine.

[u/The_King_of_Canada → u/Perfect_Diamond_1128]

Immigrants are too often working blue collar jobs and vote conservative. This is a bad take.

Tell you what get the CPC to not elect an absolute shit trump lite leader who won't blow a 22 point lead and, i don't know actually acts patriotic and not just a sellout for US corporate interests and we can talk about them in a different context than the official opposition.

For fucks sakes this patronizing horseshit of legislation just shows that they aren't done the sensationalist pony show. PP was always just right wing trudeau and the CPC hasnt changed tactics since he resigned.

[u/Lumindan → u/The_King_of_Canada]

Tell you what get the CPC to not elect an absolute shit trump lite leader who won't blow a 22 point lead and, i don't know actually acts patriotic and not just a sellout for US corporate interests and we can talk about them in a different context than the official opposition.

I see this point being made as a smear against the conservatives constantly. If you really think the conservative leader is selling out the US while also cheering on a technocratic banker who is still supporting the companies that are actually crushing Canadian's livelihoods then I don't know what to say.

For fucks sakes this patronizing horseshit of legislation just shows that they aren't done the sensationalist pony show. PP was always just right wing trudeau and the CPC hasnt changed tactics since he resigned.

Just going to remind you we're currently in the midst of seeing multiple sensational feel good moves by the Liberals with no major benefits to the Canadian public. Did we forget the tax cut that won't help with groceries and only rack up our debt? Are we ignoring the current firearms confiscation / buyback that is literally just smoke and mirrors to create the illusion of public safety and buy quebec votes? Data surveillance laws in the name of safety? Exempting companies from laws in the name of productivity?

It's wild how hard people like you lose their shit at the Conservatives but they wouldn't be doing half the shit that's going on now.

[u/The_King_of_Canada → u/Lumindan]

If you really think the conservative leader is selling out the US while also cheering on a technocratic banker who is still supporting the companies that are actually crushing Canadian's livelihoods then I don't know what to say.

100% agree. But that's not something that the CPC will do anything about either. They will talk tax cuts for those same corporations and pretend that it'll trickle down to us while our cost of living increases, they mark up the goods even more, and their shareholders get excellent returns.

In order to keep the cost of living down we need public options that operate on a tiny profit margin where the priority is to generate cheaper goods. But that's a lefty idea and isn't going to get better under the Liberals or the Conservatives. Hell even Carneys grocery tax credit is just incentive for higher prices of goods.

All Pierre had to do was to stand with Canada against the US 51st rhetoric but he shut up for a week until polls told him what to do and keeps saying that a new trade deal should be the #1 priority as if Trump is going to stick to any trade deal.

Did we forget the tax cut that won't help with groceries and only rack up our debt?

I'll be honest I don't care about the debt. It's cheap to service and we can pay it off in a year if we actually want to but we're building infrastructure and upgrading our military and that isn't free.

Are we ignoring the current firearms confiscation / buyback that is literally just smoke and mirrors to create the illusion of public safety and buy quebec votes?

No. I know. And now Quebec isn't even complying and I have no idea why they're keeping this up. The only thing I can think of is money from the anti-gun groups.

Data surveillance laws in the name of safety? Exempting companies from laws in the name of productivity?

I don't know what you're referencing here. Source?

It's wild how hard people like you lose their shit at the Conservatives but they wouldn't be doing half the shit that's going on now.

I'm pissed because I used to vote Conservative. Now I have to swallow the buckets of hate against immigrants and LGBQT people for the same party that's trashing healthcare provincially, demonizing abortion again, going to sell of property that could be generating revenue and lowering taxes, and spewing the same 3 word slogans to tell me that Canada is the worst country in the world despite my eyes and ears telling me otherwise.

I lose my shit at the Conservatives because sense has seemed to leave the party and their goal is to win for the sake of winning and they'll do or say anything to get to that goal. They betrayed me of course I'm mad at them.

Feel free not to respond to every point you are most comments in my inbox.

[u/Lumindan → u/The_King_of_Canada]

You’re bundling a lot of claims together that don’t really hold up when you look at them individually. So let's go through them.

100% agree. But that's not something that the CPC will do anything about either. They will talk tax cuts for those same corporations and pretend that it'll trickle down to us while our cost of living increases, they mark up the goods even more, and their shareholders get excellent returns.

Corporate profits and grocery prices exploded under Liberal policy (Judge me by the price of groceries btw lol) as well, and policies like tax credits or subsidies often just funnel public money through corporations anyway(Heyo ArriveCan). A government cheque doesn’t magically create competition it just increases demand, which is exactly why those programs can end up pushing prices higher.

In order to keep the cost of living down we need public options that operate on a tiny profit margin where the priority is to generate cheaper goods. But that's a lefty idea and isn't going to get better under the Liberals or the Conservatives. Hell even Carneys grocery tax credit is just incentive for higher prices of goods.

Carney's grocery tax credit did absolute nothing but buy him a fresh media cycle. In actually breaks down to like an extra 30 something dollars a week at best. That isn't getting anyone out of the poor house when we have record highs of people hitting food banks. Operating under feasible budgets is the definition of conservatism, it's about reeling in government waste, people just conflated that with gutting stuff entirely.

Public Opinions aren’t some magic solution either. If the government runs the producer or retailer, the costs don’t disappear they’re just shifted to taxpayers. Canada already runs public monopolies and oligopolies in several sectors and they aren’t exactly known for being cheap or efficient. The only way to change that is to break up those monoliths, but I don't see that happening under the Liberals.

All Pierre had to do was to stand with Canada against the US 51st rhetoric but he shut up for a week until polls told him what to do and keeps saying that a new trade deal should be the #1 priority as if Trump is going to stick to any trade deal.

I mean he did. Multiple times.

CBC video clip from 11 months ago

CTV interview from the election campaign

Poilievre to Trump: 'Canada will never be the 51st state' - Clipped from 2024.

Tweet from April 2025

The only people he keep repeating that talking point are people pushing the same tired Liberal smear points. It took me less than 5 minutes to dig that up. Your point doesn't really hold up when both Canadian leaders pushed against trump but only one of them quietly dropped the tarriffs, or did we choose to ignore that?

Also key point, politicians don’t control what the media amplifies day to day, more importantly, prioritizing a stable trade relationship with the USA isn’t selling Canada out the U.S. is our largest trading partner by a massive margin. Any government, Liberal or Conservative, has to treat that relationship seriously whether they like it or not. This isn't about MAGA or whatever other buzzword people want to use, it's objective facts that the US is our biggest partner and they are right next door to us, the whole group of redditors who did stats 101 thinking Canada can exist without trading to the US are absolutely out to lunch. I get people don't the US because it's hip but it's not really feasible.

I'll be honest I don't care about the debt. It's cheap to service and we can pay it off in a year if we actually want to but we're building infrastructure and upgrading our military and that isn't free.

You should because debt drastically affects all Canadians and we're about to spend a shit ton just keeping up with it. Canada’s federal debt scaling into the trillions. Paying that off in a year would require either catastrophic spending cuts, massive tax increases, or both, like I'm talking complete collapse here on paper. Debt servicing is barley manageable now, but interest costs are already one of the fastest-growing parts of the federal budget and it's only going to get worse.

And as someone with unfortunate knowledge of military procurement, I have very little hope those funds will be well spent or go to the proper places. If you know, you know.

No. I know. And now Quebec isn't even complying and I have no idea why they're keeping this up. The only thing I can think of is money from the anti-gun groups.

The liberals get 3 major prongs for keeping it going (maybe 4 but I'll bonus it at the end).

They get to maintain the wedge issue, they love running the conservatives want ARs on the streets ads, they've used against Harper, they've used them against Pierre, it's a free wedge. It forces the conservatives to pick a side on what should be a non-partisan issue and makes it into one.

They get to maintain the illusion of public safety. Do you have any idea how much work and time would be required to actually crack down on the border? The amount of negative press that would pop up because certain smuggling points are NOT media friendly and the Liberals LOVE to pander. It's easier to say they're getting assault style guns off the streets then actually address crime guns. This isn't a new fact.

They get to buy those sweet suburban votes. It's not just Quebec either, there's plenty of people with zero knowledge of firearms who eat this shit up. It's pandering to their base with your tax dollars. That money could be better spent on literally ANYTHING else, like I don't know, THE BORDER?

The fourth one is more of a tin foil hat thing but I'll include it for the sake of discussion, it feels like the forced those OICs because they didn't think they'd win the election and it would put the at the time, giga majority conservative government into a really bad spot wasting time in the house to undo it all.

The poly money means nothing in the grand scheme, there are significantly bigger fish funding the Liberals.

I don't know what you're referencing here. Source?

Bill C2 is their border act which lets the cops do a bunch of invasive searches into you without any warrants. Completely unchecked btw. Source and here's the bill itself

It received a ton of blowback in the house but not a ton of media coverage. They've now brought it back AGAIN as Bill C22. Source1 and Source2

It's a Sean Fraser and Gary Anandasangaree combo piece with Carney backing it. If you can't see how problematic it is allowing the government to encroach even further into your data, location and privacy in the name of 'safety', well then I don't know what else to say.

But don't worry, they're also reducing the transparency in the government and the ability to assess them, not that they don't already push back against information requests but now they're full sending it.

There's also (with a quick summary, feel free to look them up and read them for yourself):

Bill C-8: Control over cyber systems, networks, utilities-power to cut/throttle

Bill C-9: Speech and ideology. Vague hate definitions used to silence dissent

Bill C-11: Regulates online content, controiling what you see and share

Bill C-63: Policing messaging, speech, online behavior

So yeah, I'm pretty worried about whats being passed and concerned they're gonna ram this shit through the house when they land a majority via floor crossing.

I'm pissed because I used to vote Conservative. Now I have to swallow the buckets of hate against immigrants and LGBQT people for the same party that's trashing healthcare provincially, demonizing abortion again, going to sell of property that could be generating revenue and lowering taxes, and spewing the same 3 word slogans to tell me that Canada is the worst country in the world despite my eyes and ears telling me otherwise.

Buddy, you've bought into the reddit hate haven't you? Let's work on that. Conservatives are campaigning on “hate against immigrants or LGBTQ people” is mostly political framing. Immigration levels, border control, and social policy debates aren’t automatically hatred they’re policy disagreements. Painting half the electorate as bigots is exactly the kind of rhetoric that makes political discourse worse and it's a great smear by the Liberals. They love their unchecked and unfettered immigration, I'm all for controlled immigration, I'm not down to import shit tons of people to suppress wages and strain our systems beyond the brink. Also saying that the conservatives are against LGBTQ is just a straight up lie / misinfo post thats caught on and it's an easy club to swing with NO substance behind it. If the conservatives were anti-lgbtq, they'd be pushing to ban gay marriage (which they havent lol, infact there's plenty of diverse folks in Conservative camp too) and stop any kind of transitioning surgery. They've asked to implement age limits and safe guards, which there SHOULD be when it comes to life changing medical work.

[u/Lumindan → u/Lumindan]

I ran out of characters.

spewing the same 3 word slogans to tell me that Canada is the worst country in the world despite my eyes and ears telling me otherwise.

Every political party does this. Elbows up, Canada Strong, Canada Unity, The Rupture with the US.

And objectively, Canada IS slumping right now. We're in a pretty rough economic decline, our trade is drying up, jobs are dropping away from folks, food bank numbers are at an all time high, we're suffering from a massive brain drain to the states in terms of talent (STEM oh boy!), we're running an insane deficit, we sit on a mountain of resources that we can't process because we refuse to invest in ourselves and meanwhile our government is busy virtue signaling and crying about Trump instead of actually helping people. Now sprinkle in a dose of the world being not so steady (IE: any kind of war on the other side of the world) and every Canadian is gonna pay for it. This isn't feeling, it's an objective fact.

The Liberals shooting down the Affordable food act was pretty telling where their priorities were. Maintaining a gun buyback with zero effect on Public Safety except for keeping consultants on the payroll isn't problematic to you?

I lose my shit at the Conservatives because sense has seemed to leave the party and their goal is to win for the sake of winning and they'll do or say anything to get to that goal. They betrayed me of course I'm mad at them.

Yeah you're mad, but most of your points are vibe based emotional responses not rooted in fact, that's why I'm calling you out. If you feel the party moved away from what you want, that’s fair, you vote however you want, thats the one of the best parts of being Canadian. People change parties all the time. But a lot of what you’re describing is less about concrete policy and more about the narratives that have been pushed via smears and reddit, not fact. Disagreeing with Conservatives is one thing. Pretending every problem in Canada comes from them while the parties that have governed most of the last decade are blameless doesn’t really make sense and hence why I'm responding to your posts.

[u/The_King_of_Canada → u/Lumindan]

Oh ho ho and here I though you said you were done with me. I'm not going to respond to all of your points FYI I'm not that bored.

Corporate profits and grocery prices exploded under Liberal policy

Yea because of Covid. Did you hear about that? Did you hear about global rampant inflation?

A government cheque doesn’t magically create competition it just increases demand, which is exactly why those programs can end up pushing prices higher.

I don't want them to send government cheques I want a public option with low markups.

That isn't getting anyone out of the poor house when we have record highs of people hitting food banks.

Yea. Did you read my comment? I agree.

Operating under feasible budgets is the definition of conservatism, it's about reeling in government waste

Well it's about cutting essential services to the point where they don't work, cutting taxes for the rich, and then not cutting spending. And if you want to talk waste let's talk military there's a shit load in there.

The only way to change that is to break up those monoliths, but I don't see that happening under the Liberals.

Yea. I said this. And it definitely won't happen under the CPC.

I mean he did. Multiple times.

Yea. After a week of silence. It really doesn't count when you wait for polling and the other guy took a firm stance.

Bill C2

They've been making amendments warrants are now required for everything I read in the article.

Bill C22

In Bill C-22, the government is proposing that police and the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) only be able to approach telecommunications companies and ask them if, yes or no, an individual is a client before having to get a warrant for more information. Article content

That’s a significant step back from the original proposal in C-2 that would have allowed them to approach any service provider (including those protected by privilege such as doctors and lawyers) to ask if an individual was a client, for how long, where, and if the company knew of other service providers who had dealt with that individual. All without a warrant.

The article says that they made changes and still need warrants.

But don't worry, they're also reducing the transparency in the government and the ability to assess them, not that they don't already push back against information requests but now they're full sending it.

The paper the article is referring to is not law and says it would allow for extensions in emergency situations.

Bill C-8

Probably not going to pass like that.

Bill C-9

Agreed but it likely won't pass the Supreme Court challenge.

Bill C-11

Just expands the demand that content viewed in Canada have a certain amount made in Canada. Like we do for TV services.

Bill C-63

No opinion, doesn't sound like it's getting though. If it does I doubt it'll survive the supreme court.

Buddy, you've bought into the reddit hate haven't you?

Imma not going to read that whole thing. Everything I said was hand delivered to my door by the CPC flyer last election.

The rest you're going to spend another few paragraphs saying your opinion and ignoring what I wrote so I'll do the same here.

[u/Gravy_Tanker → u/[deleted]]

Things are going so great now. More abortions!

[u/Gravy_Tanker → u/[deleted]]

Don’t look up who aborts kids the most. You’ll be very disappointed🙂

[u/Gravy_Tanker → u/[deleted]]

Keep huffing that copium🙂

[u/Lumindan → u/[deleted]]

Sorry what's the implication here?

Be direct and don't vague post.

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[u/Lumindan → u/[deleted]]

Or hear me out, we base our Canadian firearms and defense laws on Canadian data and stop trying to import America policies.

JUST so you can have more and bigger guns, were fucked.

Are you lost? How much do you genuinely know about firearms ownership in Canada?

[u/Lumindan → u/[deleted]]

That’s a pretty wild take. You’re basically saying you want a firearms license not because you respect the responsibility, training, and legal framework around gun ownership in Canada, but because you think you’re morally superior to everyone else who already has one. That kind of attitude is exactly the opposite of what responsible ownership is about.

Getting a PAL isn’t about being the one empathetic person with a gun. It’s about learning the law, safe handling, storage, transport, and understanding that firearms are tools that come with serious responsibilities. Plenty of decent, normal Canadians across the political spectrum already own them and manage not to turn it into some weird moral crusade.

If reading a discussion forum makes you “puke” because people disagree with your politics, you might want to work on that before worrying about whether you should be armed. Responsible gun owners don’t need to convince themselves they’re the only good person in the room. They just follow the law, handle their firearms safely, and get on with their lives.

And given how much you've spewed about the conservatives, abortion and apparently even gun ownership (in a firearms sub lol), you must be pretty puked out.

The ironic part is that the attitude you’re showing here thinking everyone else is a monster or evil while you’re the enlightened one is exactly the kind of self-righteous nonsense that makes productive conversations about firearms impossible in the first place.

Maybe go touch some grass, read up about firearms and put your partisan politics to bed for a little bit.

[u/Lumindan → u/[deleted]]

When its racist inbred bullshit, that makes me puke, the fact that this sub is comfortable with it and doesnt call it out makes me puke. Bury your head in the sand.

Is that happening in this sub right now, last I checked the mods are incredibly strict in this sub when it comes to that? Are those folks in the room with us? That's an insane accusation to be making.

First off, throwing around insults like that doesn’t magically make your point stronger. It just shows you’ve run out of arguments. If there was actually rampant racism going on, you’d be quoting it and calling it out specifically. Instead you’re just vague-posting and smearing an entire community because it’s easier than engaging with people you disagree with.

Second, you keep acting like gun ownership equals racism. That’s nonsense. Firearms ownership in Canada cuts across every demographic immigrants, Indigenous hunters, sport shooters, rural families, urban collectors. Acting like the entire community is some backwoods stereotype is just lazy prejudice on your part.

Bury your head in the sand.

And the irony here is incredible, you accuse everyone else of “burying their head in the sand,” while ignoring the reality that licensed owners are vetted through the background check system administered by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and monitored continuously. The people you’re insulting are literally among the most scrutinized and law-abiding groups in the country.

Maybe you need to check your bias before posting.

[u/airchinapilot → u/Lumindan]

Is that happening in this sub right now, last I checked the mods are incredibly strict in this sub when it comes to that? Are those folks in the room with us?

It sounds like you are having a decent debate here so no need to step in.

[u/Lumindan → u/airchinapilot]

o7 I'm trying.

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[u/LoveMysterious8389 → u/[deleted]]

Fair enough. You seem like a pretty empathetic dude

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[u/Primary_Judge → u/[deleted]]

FYI, 13/50 states banned abortions. The Canadian working class pay the health care. We'd love bigger guns.

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[u/BlackElmyr → u/Perfect_Diamond_1128]

So you seriously think the Liberals selectively had a plan to usher in enough immigrants with the intention to offset the voting of all other Candidans? That they've a mysterious power, guaranteeing they know that they'll all vote Liberal? That they do all this knowing it takes 5 years from entry, assuming everything works out, before they can vote? And despite all this devilishly clever long-term 3 dimensional planning, that tthey brought in legislation cutting international student permits by 61% and temporary foreign workers by 47% ?

If enough Canadians have the same magical thinking as you, the Liberals never needed to "import" foreigners. All they needed to do was dangle some string or flash some shiny objects and you folks would be too distracted to make it to the polls. Jesus, give your head a shake. You replacement theory idiots make me sick.