r/canadaguns • u/AutoModerator • Oct 30 '22

Weekly Newbies & FAQ Thread - Post your questions here for PAL/RPAL application, timelines, CFSC/CFSRC, references & requirements, or general new to firearms ownership -type questions

This thread will be used for the "new"-type questions, PAL/RPAL applications, references, CFSC/CFRSC requirements, storage/transport, or other general "new-to-me" firearms ownership questions.

In response to this thread, the community was quite positive for a thread to cover these subjects.

These threads will be stickied for a week, renewing every Sunday @ about 0600 AST. Previous threads here. Take a look, your question may have been answered!

If you have any suggestions for this thread, please feel free to ask here, or send the Mods a message.

Thank you!

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u/Brilliant_Gift1917 Nov 04 '22

I have two previous mental health diagnosis - one of them I've fully recovered from and the other is permanent but doesn't affect my ability to safely own and use guns, though some people with outdated stereotypes may think otherwise.

The last time I consulted a doctor/psychiatrist about either of these was in the UK, because like I said neither of them have caused any problems and I've completely recovered from one and have had no need to speak to a doctor/psychiatrist in Canada regarding either one.

I asked my previous psychiatrist from the UK if he would be okay doing a letter just verifying my statements that neither of these diagnosis cause any problems in my life, but he was reluctant to do it because he said that Canada is outside of his 'medical jurisdiction.' (those weren't his exact words, but that was the general jist)

The issue is I highly doubt that the RCMP will just take my word for it, and I'm reluctant to spend thousands on reassessments with a Canadian MH clinic just to have a medical professional tell the RCMP that my diagnosis is not gonna be a problem.

Anyone been in a similar position and/or have any advice?

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u/CanadaGunsMod Nov 04 '22

Apply for your PAL, be honest. If the RCMP requires additional documentation they will ask for it. You do not have to supply this up front. If you do not have a history of violence, threats, or self-harm, they will often not go further in their questioning.

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u/Brilliant_Gift1917 Nov 04 '22

Thanks. Hopefully they won't have a problem with it, I just worry about the stigma around one of the names of the diagnosis. How much detail should I go into on the cover letter they ask you to write if you tick a box for mental health diagnosis? I was thinking just a simple "These are both from when I was a kid/young teenager, I've recovered from one a long time ago and the other has never affected me, and neither should present any problems with me owning guns" should be enough?

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u/CanadaGunsMod Nov 04 '22

Leave out the bit about it not presenting a problem. Diagnosis is fine, if you want to add detail about how you're managing any current symptoms (therapy, meds, etc) that's up to you. Again, they will send you a letter requesting more info if they need it. Note that a PAL is considered a "shall issue" license. If they deny your application, you can appeal that decision.

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u/Brilliant_Gift1917 Nov 04 '22 edited Nov 04 '22

Leave out the bit about it not presenting a problem.

I wasn't necessarily gonna straight up say "This isn't a problem", more along the lines of "This [diagnosis name] has never made me feel violent or suicidal", but do you think it be better just entirely leaving that out? I just thought it'd be good to clarify as the name of the diagnosis is a broad spectrum and those symptoms can apply to some people, only fortunately where I am on it, those things don't apply to me.

Edit: Also thanks for the info on PAL's being "shall issue", I had always believed they were "may issue". Made me a little less worried now. Was thinking of joining the CCFR, would they be able to help in the case of an appeal?

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u/CanadaGunsMod Nov 04 '22

You don't need to provide more information than you're comfortable with providing, provided it's the truth. There's not really a right or wrong way to do it.

CCFR won't really help with that, no, other than maybe recommending a lawyer if you needed one. /u/varsil?

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u/Brilliant_Gift1917 Nov 05 '22

I'll probably look into a lawyer if I'm rejected, otherwise I don't think I'll need one. I'll just stick to the facts when writing the cover letter, and hope whoever reviews it doesn't hold stereotypes from 15 years ago.

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u/RydNightwish Nov 05 '22 edited Nov 05 '22

"I'm reluctant to spend thousands on reassessments" but ready to spend thousands on a lawyer over a conflict that hasnt happened but you seem convinced will.

My guy, we had this talk last time you brought this up and people have reiterated my points since then. Be truthful and honest when filling out your forms. If they ask for supporting documents then provide them. That is all you have to do.

Your unnecesarily committed to this mentality of having to be confrontational with the CFP, preparing yourself to claim discrimination, fight this in court and resistant to having to explain things the way required. All before you have seemingly submitted your forms as well. Its your business and nobody here needs to know why but the fact your still building this up in your mind like you have been just doesnt make rational sense if everything is on the level.

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u/Brilliant_Gift1917 Nov 05 '22

I've dealt with serious discrimination before and people in institutions assuming the worst when they see the name, so obviously I'm going to be a bit paranoid that a police institution especially will have the same stereotypes.

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u/RydNightwish Nov 05 '22 edited Nov 05 '22

You have to remember though that the way it is setup that they have to balance risk factors. This doesnt automatically mean its discrimination (firearms ownership is a privilege and NOT a right in Canada currently) if they turn your application down. They will not, especially these days, take your word for it that there is no issue and if satisfactory documentation cannot be provided then yes it will likely be rejected which again doesnt mean you were discriminated against. As well your more than likely going to lose any appeal based on percieved discrimination as it is a very high threshold to prove it against any claim of possible safety risk.

So again if you assume there will be a problem its because you made a paperwork issue into something more because you did not get your way. Lots of people post here with MH questions and have been successful in getting thier PAL. And none have gone on the tangents you are about getting turned down. Simply be honest and upfront thats all it takes.

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u/Remote_Ad_742 Nov 04 '22

It's one of those things where to me it reads like, someone inviting you somewhere or offering a ride and saying 'Don't worry I'm not gonna kill you'... And it's like... hmm, why did he tell me that? Idk what it is or the RCMP POV, but that's absolutely how it read to me when you said has never made me feel violent or suicidal. Like it's likely to be true, but why would you tell me?

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u/Brilliant_Gift1917 Nov 04 '22

I suppose. I think giving the name for the diagnosis would give better context as to why I'd say it but I'd prefer to keep it private.

The one I've long recovered for was depression, though, so I think it'd be important to note that I never felt suicidal despite having it at one point, as some people to this day seem to associate depression with feeling suicidal.

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u/Beretta_errata removeddit pro Nov 04 '22

Perhaps a note from your family doctor?

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u/Brilliant_Gift1917 Nov 04 '22

I haven't been in Canada insanely long, I do have OHIP but I've never had any issues which required me to register with a Family Doctor, I only ever had to go to a walk-in once for some antibiotics.

Even if I registered with a Family Doctor, I doubt a letter from them would mean much as all of my mental health consultations were years ago in the UK. They wouldn't know me well enough for a letter to hold any weight unless I took an expensive reassessment. I've simply not had any mental health problems since I was a young teenager and therefore have had no reasons to seek any consultations for it.