r/canadaguns • u/AutoModerator • Jun 13 '22

Weekly Politics Thread

Please post all your Politics or Ban-related ideas, initiatives, comments, suggestions, news articles, and recommendations in this thread. Unless new information is published in the media, recurring articles related to the gov'ts ***possible*** legislation are to be posted here. These threads will be weekly, until it's necessary for another per-week.

Previous politics threads can be found here. Previous threads can be found here.

We understand that politics is a touchy subject, and at times things can get heated. A reminder of the subreddit rules, when commenting, where subreddit users are expected to abide.

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u/[deleted] Jun 13 '22 edited Jun 13 '22

Some of my edit in a reply didn't go through and I figured it's worth being a standalone comment:

The opposition is predicting the next move and hopping onto the self defence argument. The toothless, and quite frankly, spineless world view of "gun owners must be nice and show that sports shooting is what we're about!! :DD" is obsolete. Me and a handful of users have already pointed out that leaning hard on this angle shoves us into a corner, where the public perceives this thing of ours as a frivolous, rich guy hobby. It just so happens that this "hobby" is dangerous - so what's stopping the government from banning it entirely?

Users here may not like that for whatever reason. Fact of the matter is, 50 years of sports shooting has gotten us nowhere. The gun community in Canada needs to change with the times and no, leaning harder on sports shooting isn't going to cut it any more.

E: reposting the article that floydsmoot posted:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/guns-must-not-be-used-for-self-defense-canadas-trudeau-insists

Dear Leader is trying real hard.

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u/April_Ethereal Jun 13 '22

If sport shooting and hunting are "obsolete", then how / what should people be doing / talking about in your opinion? What is the change we should be following with the times and leaning on?

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u/[deleted] Jun 13 '22

Nothing. Just give up and let Trudeau do whatever he wants to gun owners. Any time we get criticized we must talk about how inclusive and peaceful we are while our semi autos, handguns and bolt guns get confiscated. Oh yeah and vote liberal.

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u/April_Ethereal Jun 13 '22

Too much of a coward to say it eh?

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u/[deleted] Jun 13 '22

Have you tried reading what I've been replying to other people are or you going to say stupid shit?

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u/April_Ethereal Jun 13 '22

I read all of your replies in this thread before making my first comment. And I've read all the new ones since, before making the next. What I want is for you to be direct rather than talking around it with vagaries.

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u/[deleted] Jun 13 '22

Direct about what? I've been direct. This community needs to shift the narrative from sports shooting to self defence and property rights because the former is an obsolete argument. Is that not clear to you?

I've been saying this since I made a Reddit account.

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u/April_Ethereal Jun 13 '22

Yes, that half I'd gathered from other comments, but thank you for stating it directly as per my request. The other half is the how to go about facilitating that change (if you'd be so kind).

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u/April_Ethereal Jun 13 '22

Self-defence as a primary purpose for firearms ownership in this country has absolutely terrible optics, and will not be seen as reasonable by most people whether you want to admit that or not. It's worse than the "nothing" you believe advocacy from a sporting standpoint provides as it actively harms public perceptions by feeding into opposition scaremongering.

If you pursue that as a serious narrative you're playing right into Poly and the LPC's hands; you'll be standing in for the straw man they've created that all the firearms they're banning aren't owned for sporting or hunting purposes.

Please stop doing free opposition research.

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u/[deleted] Jun 13 '22

Anyways, 50 more years of sports shooting. Who's with me?

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u/April_Ethereal Jun 14 '22

Ignore reality at your own peril; just don't expect others to join you quietly.

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u/[deleted] Jun 14 '22

This "reality" is that a debate older than most of us on this subreddit has run its course. Time to change

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u/April_Ethereal Jun 14 '22

Change to what, the even older and more obsolete narrative of "firearms ownership primarily for self defence"? The same position that people took in the 1990s in the face of the current firearms act? The narrative position that failed then with a far more receptive population than we have now?

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u/drain-angel BC Jun 14 '22 edited Jun 14 '22

far more receptive population than we have now?

C-17 [FAC Background Checks & Storage Laws] & C-68 [PALs & 12.(X) provisions & the FA] + the prohibitions under Chretien was literally done under the context of the Polytechnique shooting. The US had the AWB under Clinton in '94 & the late 80s saw the Brady Law (NICS Handgun Check) & the US ban on Full Autos. The gun control movement was in full swing then.

A poll from the 90s also shows a 70% favour in terms of banning handguns, vs. a StatsCan survey from 2019 with only 27-33% in favor (do not own handguns/guns).

We have seen very anti-gun jurisdictions such as Coastal California (LA County & Bay Area) significantly relax the barrier required for CCW following a deterioration of the public safety situation (which we are seeing here now).

Harper's expansion of self-defence laws (which drug us from dogshit to subpar) was barely challenged and has opened the door to multiple high-profile cases where we have seen acquittals in cases where firearms were involved - yet seemingly 10 years later no one is going to touch the law.

If anything, the public is far more receptive now to the idea of having self-defence on the table (and firearms too). Personally, I don't really see how (firearms) carry is going to work out but I can 100% see the path to at least a home-defence law regarding firearms and stuff like bear spray being worked into stuff for outside the home passing without much political pushback, and on top of that the enshrinement of property rights (which is an even more easier sell).

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u/[deleted] Jun 14 '22

We've been OICd left and right despite the positive reception, so it's not working.

It's literally only you so far who is so against what I'm saying. Other users agree but have different opinions on how to go about progressing the argument I'm advocating. Give it a rest. No one cares.

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u/throwa37 Jun 14 '22

Self-defence as a primary purpose for firearms ownership in this country has absolutely terrible optics

Right, as opposed to sporting purpose. That has such good optics that ARs and handguns are banned now.

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u/April_Ethereal Jun 14 '22

OK dude, go challenge worse.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '22

Just stop. You're being downvoted into oblivion and you have no counter to the arguments being presented other than "you look mean >:("

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