American here with a few questions

[u/CapThePunch98]

I'm not trying to gloat or anything like that, just genuinely curious about Canadians and how they're feeling about guns, gun rights, and gun purchases. You guys were clearly given the shaft when it comes to guns.

Question 1: I see a lot of comments here passing up on $900 SKS's or Carmel's because they're a ripoff. Why not spend a little extra to get your hands on a semi-automatic rifle since the vast majority of them are banned? I feel like I would if I were in your shoes. 22's are just cope imo.

Question 2: how sacred are guns to the average user here?

Question 3: how is morale? Do you guys have hope for the future? If a conservative PM wins, do you think he'll unban a lot of shit?

[u/Working_Brother7971]

I'm not speaking for all of us by any means but I don't think guns are "sacred" here, for the average gun owner. Most people I know who have guns have them as tools or sporting equipment, not some god-given holy crusader weapon. We don't generally use them as home defense, maybe in very deep country but mostly just varmint control, hunting, and sporting tools. Mind you, we still don't want those tools taken away, any more than a golfer wants his 9 iron banned. It's absolute clownshit, the government knows banning them does nothing to curb gun violence, but it's how liberals get voted into office so they ban it all away.

If a conservative government wins, I don't know how it works but reversing the bans might be tricky. They would absolutely stop banning more guns.

In the US, y'all definitely need guns. It's part of your country's founding, and the violence in your country pretty much demands self-defense. Here, it's getting worse, sure, but we're not at that point yet of needing to carry a pistol to protect life. I'm jealous, sure, but culturally we're just very different places when it comes to the need for self-defense.

[u/Working_Brother7971 → u/Working_Brother7971]

Speaking on banning guns to "protect Canadians" 2 people were just killed a few blocks away from me today and a few more injured. Really feeling safe here with fewer responsible gun owners legally owning hunting rifles.

[u/Trilobyte83 → u/Working_Brother7971]

Guns cannot be used in self defence in Canada.

If it *happened* to be out for cleaning at the exact moment intruders came, with guns, then maybe you might get off, but still expect charges, public scrutiny, to have your guns temporarily if not permanently seized, and at least 20k in legal fees and able to put it behind you after 6 months. That’s the best case.

[u/Working_Brother7971 → u/Trilobyte83]

Self defense wasn't my point. The point was the government keeps banning guns "for our safety" yet somehow people keep getting shot.

[u/PrestigiousStatus711 → u/Trilobyte83]

Guns can absolutely be used for self defence in Canada.

[u/Trilobyte83 → u/PrestigiousStatus711]

I’m obviously not saying no one’s ever defended themselves with a gun and legally prevailed. But If it could be proven that you bought, possessed, and had at the ready a gun primarily for the purpose of self defence, and used it for that, you would be in a legal shit storm. Little different than you can’t have knives or baseball bats *primarily for self defence*.

Ppl seem to be thinking I’m advocating this or saying it’s right-I’m not. I’m stating the legal reality that if you had heaps of posts online saying “better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6” advocating for your right to self defence with firearms, and prosecution pointed to that after you shot someone trying to rob you, you could very easily end up in jail for manslaughter and be facing an uphill battle since you had an attitude of “give me an excuse”.

Anything shown that was done for purposes other than hunting or sport, like keeping a trigger locked shot gun next to your night stand or door with the keys 6 inches away would be on you to prove it was reasonable- given that you can’t do so legally for the purpose of self defence.

I’m not sure why it’s confusing. Ppl seem unable to differentiate between stating whether or not a law is just, and stating what the law matter of factly says.

[u/Jay_Arrre → u/Trilobyte83]

That’s not at all true.

Canadian law states that you’re able to use whatever is available so long it is it is proportional to the threat level.

If somebody comes at you with a fly swatter, you can’t just cap their ass but if someone is lunging at you with a knife then deadly force is proportional.

[u/sh9431 → u/Jay_Arrre]

I absolutely love the proportional force clause (said with much sarcasm). If a large grown man breaks into a small woman’s house with a fly swatter, what is proportional force? Only a gun or taser would level the playing field IMO but our laws would probably disagree. The lady would be charged, dragged through the court system for a crime she didn’t instigate and was minding her own business in her own home when said grown man entered. Sadly, Canada is a joke.

[u/Jay_Arrre → u/sh9431]

Yeah it’s dumb but that’s the law… Unfortunately I think even with a conservative government that defence laws would still be
inadequate. Polivers stand on guard bill would have been a step in the right direction but still came up a bit short imo.

I think in terms of home defence we absolutely need castle law. If you are in my home, I feel intent to harm ought to be presumed.

Defence while just walking about would be a nightmare to get right as it’s a bit more ambiguous as to the aggressors intent. As much as I think concealed carry is cool, I don’t think I trust the vast majority of people to carry properly.

[u/sh9431 → u/Jay_Arrre]

I used to believe the CPC would and could turn the boat around for Canada but I don’t anymore. When you remove Alberta/Saskatchewan votes from the national voter count, the percentage of Canadians who voted Liberal is higher than the percentage of Californians who voted democrat. Sadly, Canada is lost. Only provinces going their own way will keep “old school Canadian values” alive.

[u/airchinapilot → u/Jay_Arrre]

we absolutely need castle wall.

Interesting typo

[u/Jay_Arrre → u/airchinapilot]

Your point?

[u/airchinapilot → u/Jay_Arrre]

It was a funny typo, that's all. Sheesh

[u/Trilobyte83 → u/Jay_Arrre]

How is it not true? There is example after example of ppl shooting home intruders only to face a years long 5 off not 6 figure battle for anything from unsafe storage trough second degree murder.

How would a gun be at the ready unless it was improperly stored? I’m not agreeing, I’m stating what some anti gun lawyer would say and make you defend against.

There’s no “let the DA review it and decide on no charges” like in the US.

[u/airchinapilot → u/Jay_Arrre]

The word is 'reasonable' which doesn't always equate to proportional.

[u/Jay_Arrre → u/airchinapilot]

Touché. However in most cases proportional is reasonable.

[u/airchinapilot → u/Jay_Arrre]

The reason why the proportional clause is in there is to account for the egregious cases of someone shooting an attacker who has the flyswatter.

However, people in these threads mistake proportionality as always being the case when the self defense law - which the Conservatives modified - has other clauses which can provide context which could help someone had to resort to the 'greater' weapon. Ex. the little old lady in a wheelchair who had to go for the gun because she was attacked by the hulking MMA fighter who broke into her home. With the right context, she gets off.

People in these threads always try to dumb it down.