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[u/YourSnipingOperator]

Throwaway account for obvious reasons.

Im a cop and participated in the buyback with my restricteds (did not declare any of many former NRs). Do not shoot the messenger for what Im about to say as my opinions are purely expressed to inform you and not sugarcoat or provide copium. For the record Ive been a gun owner much longer than a cop and own far more non restricted non-cope rifles than you would imagine (to the detriment of my finances) and joined the CCFR in its infancy. Here's a few things I'll comment on:

1. The participants generally seem to be older gen x/boomer types, or other law enforcement professionals (think Corrections/Sheriffs/etc) who arent exactly in a position to be keeping a registered prohibited firearm on paper and thus committing an offense. Myself and other colleagues have theorized that at least in the RCMP, there will be a chance that once the amnesty is up they will start doing Code of Conducts on Members that didnt comply as the Commissioner is a yes-man for the Liberals. They will make sure that the firearms registry is provided for this purpose in a lawful way to do this so that they don't get in shit down the road for it. Even if they do, consequences evidently dont apply to Liberal yes-men.

2. In spite of that, there are tons of cops that arent participating at all, but in those cases they only have NRs that are now prohibited. Can't say Ive spoken to one yet with a registered restricted that didnt sign up to turn it in. These cops are just going to stay quiet and never give up what they have as there is no proof anywhere that they have it. I wont provide legal advice but take away from that what you will.

3. Cops are not going door to door, even if asked. It is also a monumental task to perform while already short staffed. There are many simpler enforcement mechanisms that I will comment on later.

4. In my opinion, and this is in spite of the CCFR case, those with restricteds are completely fucked if they didn't participate in the buyback. This government has shown time and time again that it will continue to be spiteful to gun owners, and anyone who had a registered restricted is a slam dunk target. The only thing I can see happening is that there is a 2nd round of the buyback opening back up due to not having enough participation in the 1st round, in which case that will likely be the final offramp for those with anything registered to their name.

5. In regards to point 4, I see the following, very realistic scenarios playing out by the end of the amnesty, regardless if it is extended, and I'll order them from most to least likely. To be frank, I do not believe the CCFR case will make a material difference as the Liberals can and will codify the OICs into law if need be.

Option A: Anyone with a registered restricted who has not either deactivated/turned in/destroyed it will receive a threatening letter from the CFO/RCMP and will face a PAL revocation after Oct 31st. At that point you'll have no leg to stand on and will have to surrender your firearms. In this case, Police can and may go so far as to obtain a search warrant based off the evidence that you are in illegal possession of X gun bearing X serial number. If that amount of effort is being put in, you would be catching a possession charge too.

For anyone that owns a handgun, they will likely fold the second they receive that letter as theyll otherwise lose their handguns too. You now receive no compensation for what you turned in.

I strongly believe this option is the most likely as it does the most damage to gun owners while the government has to do very little, and at this point spend even less. The government was more than happy to see non-compliance on the part of registered restricted owners because they will provide the perfect whipping boys. Revoking your PAL is very easy and doesnt require anyone to go door to door. Enforcement of course is a different matter.

Option B: The amnesty gets extended another year because uptake wasnt what they wanted. Maybe a 2nd buyback round gets initiated. Then after that, Option A occurs after that.

Option C: Grandfathering without usage, just like all the boomers with 12(x) on their PALs. This isnt a win for you either, because now that all the boomers are dying and the government codified no longer passing down the 12(x) endorsements to family, those guns usually just get destroyed or sold to businesses/auctions for pennys on the dollar. It is the least enjoyable part of my job to go to these homes after a boomer passes away, seeing incredible collections, and then it ends up that the family or wife want nothing to do with the guns despite me offering to assist them with other methods that don't include destruction.

Yes, theres a chance that by next election the Liberals are out and maybe in 3 years youll be able to use them again. However, in my opinion, you need to act and prepare for what the reality is now and what it likely will be next election, which is that as long as the Liberals remain in power, gun owners will not see any relenting on the Liberals part to stop their repeated abuse.

I would rather be a PAL holder that has zero registered guns to their name, and ride this government out until they are gone.

Again, please do not shoot the messenger. I do not support the bans, the buyback, or anything else related to them from a moral point of view. 

[u/WeightedDips95 → u/YourSnipingOperator]

Everybody had a choice whether or not to participate in the buyback, no?

Even if you wanted to stay on the right side of the law, there were ways to come into compliance without validating the Liberal extortion vote-getting scheme.

[u/Natural_Comparison21 → u/[deleted]]

This right here is the only question that matters. If you are not willing to stand up against un just laws one is no better then the government.

[u/boozefiend3000 → u/YourSnipingOperator]

If the cops aren’t coming door to door to collect banned rifles due to staffing issues can they really go door to door for PAL revocations? Isn’t that the exact same problem?

[u/Reasonable_Hall2346 → u/boozefiend3000]

They don't need to go door to door for PAL revocations. When its time to renew you will just never get that RPAL back.

NAL, but this is my plan: If the amnesty is not extended I am self destroying my banned firearms (restricted) and calling it in with the CFO by providing the serial number of the destroyed firearms. As far as I know no proof of destruction is necessary, and since it will actually be destroyed, it should be good.

[u/YourSnipingOperator → u/Reasonable_Hall2346]

This is a scenario ive talked with coworkers about. Lots of reports in october of destroying firearms. As far as I know, you are correct that there is technically no legal requirement of proof for destruction. It is an offense to lie about destruction, but it has to be proven in the first place. As long as you dont hit your girlfriend/wife/dog there shouldn't be a cop in your house looking for guns anyways.

[u/boozefiend3000 → u/Reasonable_Hall2346]

If they don’t renew your RPAL they have to come get your registered stuff 

[u/GinnAdvent → u/boozefiend3000]

It's probably a different story if you have the RPAL revoked and also have more than 20 pistols under your name, lol.

[u/TKB-059 → u/Reasonable_Hall2346]

When its time to renew you will just never get that RPAL back

They won't turnkey make thousands upon thousands of people serious criminals (weapons charge is an indictable offence) the moment they get pulled over for a speeding ticket and their shit gets scanned hot.

[u/YourSnipingOperator → u/boozefiend3000]

Well here's the thing with a PAL revocation, its done electronically. Then youll get a letter to turn in your prohibs that are registered. Maybe they reinstate your PAL after that. Or maybe not and they say "we gave you a deadline, too bad" and your remaining restricteds like handguns are gone too.

You only need cops to come door to door when you ignore that revocation. Then, congratulations, you now have something in your possession that justifies writing and a judge approving said search warrant. Its a lot easier to target non compliance when you have a name, address, and a make/model/serial number to write in an ITO.

Otherwise, if you have only non restricteds that are now prohibited, no one's coming to your door because theres no information to support doing that in the first place

[u/boozefiend3000 → u/YourSnipingOperator]

But if everyone ignores the letters do the cops really have the manpower to waste busting in all our doors 

[u/YourSnipingOperator → u/boozefiend3000]

No, but id imagine ottawa would be rolling shit downhill and making things happen to a few people as an example. Again, look at who is in power right now.

I personally spend time on firearms investigations involving genuine criminals, and it gets very convoluted very quickly when it comes to investigating something like trafficking involving a PAL holder. However, in theory, it would be very, very easy to template an information to obtain for dozens of search warrants when you can tell a judge you need to go to x house where x person lives with x registered firearm which is prohibited and the amnesty has expired. Resourcing wise it would be a pain but the resources do exist, search warrants for other things are done every day after all.

[u/HappyCan7250 → u/YourSnipingOperator]

That's why we all gotta buy NR Makasis and Carmels. Keep the sport alive and stick the middle finger to this party. 

[u/rastamasta45 → u/YourSnipingOperator]

Greatly appreciate your insight and thoughts,

How does AB and SK effect this though? They can’t revoke the pals of everyone in that province since they can’t legally participate?

Criminal code has to be applied across the country, can’t enforce it into certain provinces whole exempting others, that would create even more chaos in Canada, would it not?

Edit: also, only BC and Quebec signed on, after that no one else substantial…..how do they plan to even collect for those that did sign up when they haven’t announced who’s even doing the collection in let’s say Ontario??

[u/YourSnipingOperator → u/rastamasta45]

As I said to another comment, I think the AB situation will be interesting as long as their gov remains in power. The CFO will do everything possible to not enforce the bans, which may include not revoking PALs, and provincial prosecutors wont be going forward with simple possession charges. But if you get a federal prosecutor that won't help. If the government changes to NDP again you'd likely be screwed 

[u/Natural_Comparison21 → u/YourSnipingOperator]

How many federal prosecutors even exist in Canada?

[u/rastamasta45 → u/YourSnipingOperator]

Appreciate the insight, but I’m still curious what’s the game plan for Ontario where they didn’t technically outright oppose it, but have only 1 police force sign on to participate to enforce it (Waterloo regional). The rest of the country is SOL, so how will the government go about implementing this and ultimately enforce it when they can’t even collect them?

[u/YourSnipingOperator → u/rastamasta45]

Honestly, I dont know. I dont trust Doug ford as far as I can throw him, hes throwing red meat to the base by saying to keep your guns but unless he announces some concrete action, id imagine the PAL revocation is still on the menu for Ontario. We all saw how he acted last election when he could see the boomer winds changing

[u/Brapika → u/YourSnipingOperator]

Even if you may be Fed propaganda you make some pretty good points...

In your opinion, if a person bought a now prohibited rifle after March(?) of 2022, when they started making it mandatory for shops to track serial numbers of non-restricted, would the RCMP actually be able to track this down to the average citizen? Asking for some people who like buying large diameter backyard piping.

[u/YourSnipingOperator → u/Brapika]

That backdoor registry is essentially useless. Once the gun is out of the stores hands, all the new owner needs to do is get a transfer reference number with another PAL holder, which doesnt track what is being sold/traded. Now do that three times with your friends and they do it three times with their friends. 

Let's say you buy a Carmel this summer. Go verify three of your friends PALs afterwards. Now that information from the store is useless the second one of your friends gets a PAL verification done somewhere else. Dont get me started on the effort it takes to lawfully get that information in the first place.

This is why as I said before, restricted owners are fucked. You dont have a way to obfuscate anything. You own x gun with x serial number at x address tied to x PAL number. You're not going to win a game of chicken with them. This is why I participated and dont fault anyone with restricteds who did. There's a reason the liberals wanted a registry of everything because it gives them an easy list of who to target. May as well make it expensive for them and get something for it. Go buy more non restricteds with the money and do a bunch of PAL verifications. Go buy a case of beer and invite all your buddies over for a PAL verification party

[u/Reasonable_Hall2346 → u/YourSnipingOperator]

You could have always refused to participate in the buyback and destroy your restricted yourself. Apart from financial greed, there was really no forcing function to the buyback program. People panicked and complied.

[u/YourSnipingOperator → u/Reasonable_Hall2346]

Well youre welcome to do that yourself, but I am not going to throw thousands of dollars away. Who am I making the point to, the liberals who dont care? Or would I be making it to get a pat on the back from other gun owners. Either way you're telling me and others to be both out a gun and out the cash value of it.

Is the CBC going to praise my activism and the boomers are going to wake up from their slumber?

Make this program as costly as possible for them, spend the money on guns to help the stores that are hurting. Destroying them yourself for no compensation is the best case scenario for the Liberals.

To add, calling people greedy for wanting some sort of compensation for something that they paid money for doesnt even make sense. Are you going to compensate those guys?

[u/Reasonable_Hall2346 → u/YourSnipingOperator]

You are making the point to yourself. Not bending over to the government has a price and you weren’t willing to pay it. Don’t pretend like you were forced because you are cop, you chose to participate to get some money back. Lucky for you, the majority of gun owners did not choose to participate, giving you a bigger portion of the pie, hence the financial greed.

I am not telling any one what to do. Simply highlighting that there are options that do not involve legitimizing the “buyback” program. You are free to make up your mind, and I am free (for now) to comment.

[u/YourSnipingOperator → u/Reasonable_Hall2346]

Explain to me how I would be able to just not comply as a cop/corrections/sheriff. Do you think I can testify in court while having a pending gun charge myself? Do you know what a code of conduct investigation involves? Do you have any idea how many prosecutions of crimes would be affected if the witness officers are accused of a serious offense?

How many registered restricteds do you own? What financial damage are you going to take in october when you ultimately get forced to hand them in when the amnesty is over? And ultimately, what would you accomplish?

Even if zero guns were turned in to the buyback, the liberals were not putting the brakes on this program.

[u/Reasonable_Hall2346 → u/YourSnipingOperator]

The buyback has nothing to do with being in compliance with the law. Like i said, you can self destroy and report to the CFO.

Like everyone else I am thousands of dollars out, and believe it or I have just as much to lose as anyone else (career, family etc) at the end of the amnesty.

[u/Brapika → u/YourSnipingOperator]

How accessible is the backdoor registry though? If the first owner of a rifle has never had a transfer record and is not able to produce a former non-restricted rifle they're kinda boned at an information dead end. Automatically guilty of something.

[u/YourSnipingOperator → u/Brapika]

Its not as easy as you think, but the information exists. Generally id need an active investigation to access that information, and its all compartmentalized with the CFO/registrar, not readily available to Frontline police. But yes, say you bought an NR bren 2 in 2024 and didnt buy anything since, you would be correct. However, that still isnt proof that you own it anymore. You could have destroyed it in 2025. Maybe sold it and forgot to get a reference number. Maybe even lost it. 105(1)(a) in the criminal code applies but I think defense would have an easy time creating reasonable doubt. Things need to be slam dunk in court these days.

[u/Natural_Comparison21 → u/YourSnipingOperator]

I mean the burden of proof in Canada for criminal justice has always been "Innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt." So someone could easily say "Oh no I destroyed that gun." and because you don't need to report NRs destroyed your right that it creates reasonable doubt. It also creates reasonable doubt if you did a license verification at one point and even if the police were to go and investigate who you did that license verification for they could say "Na I didn't buy the gun after all." But who are you going to believe? The individual who said they sold it to them or the individual claiming they did not buy it. It's one persons word against another and both stories are 100% reasonable enough that any judge would go "Okay sorry but they could have just as easily sold it when it was legal to do so or they could have not done it. However that places a reasonable doubt in my mind that they still have this NR firearm. Which without any other evidence... I got to say they are not guilty."

[u/HappyCan7250 → u/YourSnipingOperator]

Do you know any cops who support the program? The few I've spoken too all seem very against it, but obviously have to be careful with their words while in uniform. 

[u/Think_Lengthiness686 → u/YourSnipingOperator]

I’m curious about what feds are gonna do to R owners in provinces like AB and SK. I know these firearm regulations are on a federal level and provincial opposition can’t really stop them, but is there any chance that provincial government turns the tide for just a little bit?

[u/YourSnipingOperator → u/Think_Lengthiness686]

No clue as I police in BC, but id imagine especially in Alberta the CFO will have more discretion to not play ball with the feds, the Alberta CFO is in charge of issuing and revoking PALs after all. I guess I'll amend my statement to say that if youre a private citizen in Alberta with a registered prohib, you might be safe for the time being based solely on who the CFOis right now. That can always change with an election.

I do know that Alberta will likely direct provincial prosecutors to not pursue any possession charges related to tbis amnesty/ban. But again, you're counting on those in power remaining in power

[u/Think_Lengthiness686 → u/YourSnipingOperator]

Thx for the info and analysis, much appreciated

[u/GinnAdvent → u/YourSnipingOperator]

Thanks for the write up, it pretty much confirm what I thought when they made the announcement few months ago.

The only issue would be restricted, because if you don't do anything about it, the PAL/RPAL might be revoked. And it will be infinitely worse if you also have handguns.

So it kind of go back to the same loop we talked about before. Either.

Deactivate them yourself or get gunsmith to do it. Export it to get some money if you can.

Or hope the buy back gets extended.

One can always hope that thing can get better but always need to expect the worse as well.

It was too bad as I actually tried to get my R to become NR but my local gunsmith told me that they couldn't get any barrels in, lol

[u/Gloomy-Grocery6562 → u/YourSnipingOperator]

thanks for the information man. I appreciate you.

[u/Dill_Pickle_Tears → u/YourSnipingOperator]

What about the chances the amnesty is extended at the request of the Supreme Court?

Ofc it’s the same possible outcome with passing legislation to codify the OIC’s.

That part I think is much more of a question mark than most think, given how the liberals moved in the past even with a majority.

I think it could be harder to pass additional legislation as they still rely on liberal MPs to vote rather than obtain and some in rural ridings have done that so they do not have a record voting against something their constituents wouldn’t agree with.