r/canadaguns • u/Kid-On-Reddit- • Apr 19 '26

News / Politics / Activism Canadian veteran sues U.S. gunmaker over career-ending injury

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/9.7169145
91 Upvotes

92% Upvoted

59 comments sorted by

76

u/matthew_py Apr 19 '26

P320 gonna p320. This is a well known issue, the fact they haven't been pulled from service is shocking

19

u/DougMacRay617 Apr 19 '26

Typical of this gov tbh

24

u/IcySkyDream Apr 19 '26

They were waiting for the US to make a decision so they could copy them and save the T&E expenses.

Too bad the US procurement process is corrupt, and now the service member is permanently disabled.

The P320 and the decisions that shaped its design are a disgrace to Sig and an embarrassment to Canada for having adopted this POS.

-2

u/RagTagPig Apr 20 '26

So it actually depends on the P320, the issue with the going off comes from differences in parts tolerances primarily with parts sourced from Indian factories as I understand it. The CAF ones have no such parts and are thus not prone to the issue but people think P320 = P320. The issue with this case specifically is the member in question used an unapproved custom holster for the P320 that allows their finger to be in the trigger guard while holstered. I doubt they will win the case as the gun would’ve been inspected by a qualified technician and any gun issue would’ve been flagged.

8

u/Nilotaus Apr 20 '26

No, anyone who says the FCU upgrade fixes everything is either lying or an idiot that doesn't know what they're talking about. SIG updating the manual for the p320 to instruct the user to never carry it barney-loaded should've been a huge red-flag for everyone paying attention.

in short: Glock has not one BUT THREE SAFETY FEATURES that prevent a unintentional discharge, a p320 barely has one.

A manual safety or trigger dingus will not fix it either, the problem was never there in the first place. Take a look at the firing pin design, that's where the fault lies it's an aftermarket part here specifically but it's good enough to get the point across as it's %99 identical and yes I chose an image of a grey guns part specifically for a reason.

Not only is that firing pin spring fully compressed and therefor fully cocking the firing pin when you rack the slide, that black L-shaped piece on the left of that image is the only thing that prevents UD's and OOB's to an extent. If the tolerances for any of the pieces involved in the slide assembly are even slightly off, the potential for unintended discharges is very high and due to the nature of MIM which that firing pin is made out of, a handgun that was once safe will eventually wear into an unsafe condition the more it is shot or even dry-fired. No amount of fiddle-fucking with any of FCU-related parts will fix it because it never could in the first place.

Now, compare the p320 to a Glock, notice the circular silver-coloured piece at the rear of the firing pin hole? That's the safety plunger that prevents the firing pin from striking a chambered round when the slide is not fully in battery. Not only must a glock trigger take the partially cocked firing pin and pull it into the fully cocked position, it also must depress the safety plunger before the pistol can successfully fire a round, the firing pin/striker can't do anything otherwise if it somehow gets pulled back without the plunger being pushed out of the way. This is on top of the trigger dingus needing to be pressed before the trigger will move rearward.

Glocks do have MIM parts as well, but there's a difference between what parts are metal-injected and the fucking MBA-brainrot bordering on deliberate sabotage going on at SIG for them to put forth an inherently flawed pistol design.

It's almost as if Gaston Glock knew what the fuck he was doing when he made his pistol, holy fucking shitballs but I guess having a trigger pull that's consistent every time is gross for some reason so we gotta fuck all that up and get people maimed or even killed so we can have triggers that can be set off by a mouse fart or just by moving weird.

-3

u/RagTagPig Apr 20 '26

None of what you said changes the fact a qualified technician inspected the pistol and found no mechanical faults or reasons for it to just discharge and ruled it a user error. The issue with the sig is 100% due to the trigger bar and striker not being machined correct to tolerances due to poor quality control that doesn’t affect the C22. See Hilton Hicks report.

2

u/Nilotaus Apr 20 '26 edited Apr 20 '26

and to reiterate: that doesn't change the fact that the P320 no matter in what variation is an inherently flawed design. There's no getting around it. I wouldn't place much trust in it just because it's designated as "C22/C24" here.

Could it be better with fire control group parts that are milled out on a CNC machine instead of MIM'd? Perhaps, but I would still be leery & doubtful that it would have as long of a service interval compared to a Glock.

Also "Qualified Technician" doesn't mean shit, if there isn't any vetting to find ties of any kind to SIG in any shape or form, he can be some random hobo picked off the street for all I care.

-4

u/RagTagPig Apr 20 '26

If you don’t trust a Weapons Technician trained on the C22 platform with the sig technical books idk what to tell ya 🤷🏼‍♂️ time will tell what happens with the law suit but I bet it gets tossed

5

u/Specialist_Chard5231 Apr 20 '26

A qualified tech looked at my p320 before it blew up. I know of 4 people who have blown up handguns. All were p320s.

Ever occur to you that the qualified tech doesn't know what to look for? Just like the mechanic that could not diagnose my car?

2

u/Nilotaus Apr 20 '26

SIG USA has a history of bribing, intimidation & extortion since Ron Cohen took over as CEO and the faults of the P320 & other products began to emerge.

If you can't put 2 and 2 together, then I don't know what to tell you.

0

u/RagTagPig Apr 20 '26

Any source for that? Tried to google it but can’t find anything at all about Sig Bribery except a Reddit post from a meme subreddit which I wouldn’t take as gospel at all.

3

u/Nilotaus Apr 20 '26

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbMfzLbU_Xg

Ben has covered the SIGcidents a fair bit and mentioned a couple of people were offered tours but I can't remember which one specifically, if you want to shove your head in the sand and keep downvoting the truth then by all means. However you like your fish fucked my dude.

Jerry Miculuk's daughter ditching SIG should be a big clue to the fucking shit show the company is.

-13

u/MotleyBrew-275 Apr 20 '26

Do you have evidence that they have a proven defect or are you just being hysterical because you don't understand how firearms work?

12

u/matthew_py Apr 20 '26

Do you have evidence that they have a proven defect

Yes the coverage has been quite extensive? Here's just 1 article about the ongoing lawsuits

https://www.police1.com/firearms/n-j-sues-sig-sauer-for-the-recall-of-p320-handguns-alleging-unintentional-discharges

Theres also plenty of videos of it happening, here's 2

https://youtube.com/shorts/Ig8OIQU7-l0?si=qSZG-ohrZTYbG4D6 https://youtu.be/OSAI_HUZDI0?si=aIw2SVEsqAUWVHNr

are you just being hysterical because you don't understand how firearms work?

I literally hold a PAL and collect firearms lmao

-6

u/MotleyBrew-275 Apr 20 '26

I'm aware of the lawsuits and videos but I'm not aware of ANYONE describing and replicating the uncommanded discharges. Boggles the mind why this is so hard to nail down under lab conditions...

This whole thing is deeply fascinating. 

6

u/MrLucky13 Apr 20 '26

Long video but he's able to get it to go off repeatedly.

https://youtu.be/jOMQOtOQoPk?si=0VGUzLD7fW9g9-jY

1

u/Nilotaus Apr 21 '26

For what it's worth, the Arex Delta passes this test https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-Wk48Ylnrok

maybe it would fail if it was banged or dropped on the rear in that config, but it's already a step up over many other pistol designs.

0

u/Nilotaus Apr 20 '26

While the p320 is inherrently flawed, this isn't the test to be championing and it's not what you & many others think it is.

case in point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1KoSBcn2bY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaV32HarnRY

0

u/madblackhater Apr 21 '26

Still waiting to see it happen with a slide that isn't completely worn out...

3

u/CorsicanMastiffStrip Apr 20 '26

CAF already knows it’s a problem and have issued “do not carry chambered” policies in response. It’s a settled issue that the P320 is the exception to the “guns don’t kill people” adage.

47

u/SirKickBan Apr 19 '26

You'd have to have an incredibly solid case to even- ..Oh it's a P320? Yeah that tracks.

Godspeed.

49

u/DonAzuld Apr 19 '26

It looks like Sig was ignoring reports of it malfunctioning for way too long. Serves them right.

6

u/PotatoFondler Apr 20 '26

I remember the discussion where it was the p320 vs the glock and ultimately it came down to cost. Never surprises me that our military procurement considers lowest bidder to be a good option after many blunders with low bid vendors.

16

u/Infinite_Price_3550 Apr 19 '26

Oh dam. I know someone in the CAF that said its not an issue. I guess he was wrong :\

7

u/HornyGoatWeedGuzzler Apr 19 '26

I've heard the mass issue C22 pistols don't have the same issue that other 320s do. If I remember correctly the soldier in this incident was CSOR and it took place a few years ago before the adoption of the C22. So this may have been a small batch purchase of the p320, NOT the C22 version, so it may have still had that issue.

This is all from memory though and my brain is pretty geeked these days so take this with a kilo of salt.

1

u/rastamasta45 Apr 20 '26

It’s investing I’ve heard people say this but never exposed how, because it’s become clear that the issue lies in the fcu system completely and these are P320’s so there should be an fcu and thus the same problem

-5

u/DougMacRay617 Apr 19 '26

They 100% have the same issue that has plauged the p320 design. Plot twist, sig doesn't even know the cause

7

u/HornyGoatWeedGuzzler Apr 19 '26

Do you have any evidence supporting that they do or don't have the same issue?

-17

u/[deleted] Apr 19 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

9

u/Infinite_Price_3550 Apr 19 '26

lol I’m sure you won’t believe me but this person ain’t the family idiot I promise.

-12

u/[deleted] Apr 19 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

6

u/Infinite_Price_3550 Apr 20 '26

Ummmm yes. Don’t really understand your comment but the guy isn’t an armourer so totally possible he is wrong. But again he ain’t no dummy.

3

u/thecoolernameistaken Apr 20 '26

Bro got washed from BMQ and hates the military 😂

7

u/JurboVolvo Apr 19 '26

I’ve been hearing about this for ages. Surprised no one sued them earlier.

2

u/Infinite_Price_3550 Apr 19 '26

I’m sure someone in the US must be suing already

-7

u/DougMacRay617 Apr 19 '26

Sig has been sued and lost multiple times

2

u/DFA_Wildcat Apr 20 '26

Why does it seem like you can carry it forever and it doesn't go off until you pull it from the holster or drop it, or manipulate it in some manner? You think you're carrying in condition 1 but it seems like you're actually in condition 0.

0

u/madblackhater Apr 21 '26

Because people don't want to admit they were negligent

3

u/RagTagPig Apr 20 '26

As I understand it the issue with the P320 comes from differences in parts tolerances from factories in india not being held to the same quality. These parts when even slightly out of spec add up which causes the issue of the P320 discharging randomly. The Canadian version the C22 uses no such parts and this specific case was due to a modified unapproved holster being used which allowed the operator to have their finger in the trigger guard while holstered. I will bet that they lose the suit as there’s nothing wrong with their C22.

-2

u/pasegr Apr 20 '26

No this case used an approved holster

1

u/RagTagPig Apr 20 '26

Source on that? Not doubting but the article above has like nothing for info

0

u/pasegr Apr 20 '26

It was during an MP shoot. Using issued holsters. Time frame is during the roll out of the 320 to MP branch

-1

u/RagTagPig Apr 20 '26 edited Apr 20 '26

The going evidence doesn’t back that up, the C22 isn’t prone to the same issue that normal P320s are, a qualified weapon technician would’ve inspected the weapon after the incident, and if the 2 instances of caf members shooting themselves with the C22 (1 was Cansof the other MP) both instances that I’m aware of were with non issued holsters. Unless you can state here or PMs where your source is from I think you’re mis informed.

EDIT: Upon further research regarding the case with the MP. I can’t say for sure it was an improper holster as I can’t find anything on it other than what I’ve been told (hearsay). But what I can say is a Weapons Technician upon investigating the firearm ruled it as user error. Meaning the firearm operated as it should without issue.

0

u/Specialist_Chard5231 Apr 20 '26

A qualified weapons tech looking at the gun doesn't mean much when qualified mechanics can't diagnose cars they are certified to work on.

-1

u/pasegr Apr 20 '26

User error does not equate to bad holster.... I also never said it was a pistol issue

1

u/DougMacRay617 Apr 19 '26

Such a Canadian gov move to even continue the acquisition of these fucking things.

3

u/K0bra_Ka1 Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 19 '26

I remember this story when it first came out. He tried to convert a P226 holster that was not designed for the P320 and ended up shooting himself. Pretty dumb move.

2

u/pasegr Apr 20 '26

No thats was a JTF2 member not this case

0

u/bombhills Apr 19 '26

People are screaming it’s p320. Yet since the update there has been no one that can recreate a discharge without input. It’s glock leg 2.0.

0

u/MotleyBrew-275 Apr 20 '26

My ninja with the truth nuke. 

1

u/Cheerful-Pessimist- Apr 19 '26

Literally saw the headline and the P320 was the first thing that came to mind, before even reading it. Not surprised at all.

3

u/bombhills Apr 19 '26

Lot is people like “oh it’s a p320” that don’t really know the topic. Yes, plenty of claims that they go off on their own. However, these claims have been found invalid. Dude modified a holster for a different sig model (p226). The 320 has a light trigger pull, and no trigger safety. Modifying a holster for a different platform is just reckless. This will get thrown out.

0

u/madblackhater Apr 21 '26

Why care about proper drills and kit when you can hide negligence

1

u/stannis_the_mannis7 Apr 20 '26

Can’t believe they still issue these. God forbid they just issue glocks or one of the other thousands of striker-fired pistols that don’t randomly go off

-1

u/madblackhater Apr 21 '26

Changing weapon brands won't fix negligence...

1

u/tghost474 Apr 20 '26

🙃 wasn’t this the case where they were using modified holsters designed for the P226z

1

u/pasegr Apr 20 '26

No that was a seperate one