r/canadaguns • u/Whoopity_Longjohn • Apr 16 '17

Why are Valment AK's actually legal?

All AK variants are banned but I'm just curious about what difference makes the Valmet variant legal. Specific components? Caliber? Where it was made?

18 Upvotes

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27

u/Krazee9 on Apr 16 '17

It is exempt from the ban by name. Specifically, the Valmet M78, Valmet Hunter, and Valmet Hunter Auto are exempt by name. The other Valmets, like the M76, are still banned.

Supposedly, this is because in the '80s sometime the government had given a bunch of Valmets to native groups in Northern Quebec and didn't then want to confiscate them from those groups, so they decided to make a special exception for the Valmet.

5

u/[deleted] Apr 17 '17

Why did the government give away Valmets?

2

u/Krazee9 on Apr 17 '17

Hell if I know, the government does lots of things that don't make sense. I think it was because they were reliable in cold weather so the natives in northern areas would have an easier time hunting or something.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 17 '17

No there's an interesting idea... Help promote a more sustainable way of life by promoting hunting/trapping through various incentives.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 18 '17

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/downvotemeufags Apr 18 '17

They didn't have a bunch laying around to give away, they bought them to give away.

1

u/tyler111762 Resident Certified Millennial Punk Apr 16 '17

could one do a "shovel valmet?"

18

u/Krazee9 on Apr 16 '17

Not bloody likely.

However, the law simply says that the "Valmet M78, Valmet Hunter, and Valmet Hunter Auto" are exempt from the ban. It does not specify Valmet of Finland. This means that, theoretically, a Canadian company could incorporate under the name "Valmet" and begin making a standard AK known as the "M78" and technically, since it is a Valmet M78, it would be exempt from the ban by name.

22

u/tyler111762 Resident Certified Millennial Punk Apr 16 '17

...

...

wellp. im off to get a loan.

4

u/SHaRTTSTRiKE Apr 16 '17

People have thought of that. Problem being that is kind like saying I'm going to make a company and call it "Smith & Wesson" and make SV9 pistols. Yeah I know kind of an awkward example I was going to use Colt but there is already colt canada. Anywho back on topic. Couple of things would probably happen. The real Valmet company would get upset and possibly legal action taken against you. The more likely would be the RCMP would simply classify it not as a "Valmet M78" but as a variant of an AK and therefore prohibited because well they are AKs.
One thought which was tossed around was convincing Valmet themselves make them but then I'd say with 99% certainty that the RCMP would give it a different FRT number from the originals and therefore not covered under the exemption.

3

u/Krazee9 on Apr 16 '17 edited Apr 16 '17

Valmet doesn't operate within Canada (I just recently learned that the company is no longer bankrupt and has been revived) and their gun division was sold to Sako in 1986. If you operate a company under the same name as another but in a different market you're allowed to do that. See: Remington guns and Remington Household Products. It also depends on where your trademark is considered valid. We accept as valid many American trademarks, but not necessarily European ones unless those companies operate within our market.

Also the RCMP would almost certainly try and say no, however as I said, the law just says "Valmet M78" not "Valmet of Finland M78," which means if you were to take it to court there is a chance that you'd win because of the vague, stupid wording of the law. As I said, it's theoretical, because nobody has the several million dollars to waste to actually try it.

5

u/ctcsupplies ctcsupplies.ca - Magpul Pusher Apr 16 '17

Valmet is trademarked in Canada by the Finnish company

https://www.ic.gc.ca/app/opic-cipo/trdmrks/srch/viewTrademark?id=0487127&lang=eng&tab=reg

1

u/Krazee9 on Apr 16 '17

Well we're possibly fucked then, especially since it lists a current owner, meaning the trademark is still active.

1

u/WhackDanielz I <3 shitposts Apr 17 '17

What if you licensed the Valmet name and started Canadian production? I mean it would be stupid expensive, but it'd be the kind of the thing I would do if I ever hit the $50 mil Lotto Max. I would totally spend a large portion of my new found wealth just to troll the RCMP.

1

u/tyler111762 Resident Certified Millennial Punk Apr 17 '17

i wonder if we could seriously get the community to get a crowd fund going and get an existing manufacturer to create a subsidiary called valmet.

i wonder if you could even get it down to the level of naming a factory valmet and still pull it off.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 18 '17

Id pledge to that.

1

u/adaminc Apr 17 '17

Sako didn't buy Valmet. Sako was created by Valmet as a new company to become their firearms manufacturing division, it was eventually sold to Beretta. So that is who owns it now.

So I think it might be easier to start a new company, name it whatever, and then license the designs from Beretta. That way you won't run afoul of international trademark and IP laws.

Similar to how Norinco makes the M305/M14, although they actually bought the dies and stuff, I don't know if any of that stuff would still exist. But if anyone was serious about this, you would need to talk to Beretta about it.

And just from my opinion, make the Valmet, and then slowly convert one to look like a Super VEPR in .308, lol.

1

u/Krazee9 on Apr 17 '17

Umm, Sako was incorporated in 1921, Valmet in 1946. Sako and Valmet were merged in 86 to form Sako-Valmet, and that was later renamed to just Sako, which was then bought out by Beretta.

Sako was created as a gunworks primarily to recondition Russian guns before the war, Valmet was created technically as a metalworks, but ended up doing a lot of the post-war gun manufacturing for Finland until its bankruptcy in the '80s.

1

u/adaminc Apr 17 '17

I stand corrected, they were both owned by the Finnish government and merged. The translation from Finnish made it sound like they created Sako to handle the firearms side.

1

u/acidboogie nb Apr 17 '17

I imagine that would simply be the expensive way to get valmets off the exemption list

1

u/Krazee9 on Apr 17 '17

That would require an act of parliament or an order in council, it's not something the RCMP could decide for themselves.

1

u/Whoopity_Longjohn Apr 16 '17

Likely depends on what makes a Valmet a valmet. You probably can't just make it an AK and call it a Valmet and have it legal.

-2

u/ezSpankOven Apr 16 '17

Heard this story before too. Also heard someone from Valmet was in bed with a liberal senator or mp at the time and this was their in. For all we know, a prominent liberal could have had one or two in their collection at the time and didn't want to give it up.

7

u/Krazee9 on Apr 16 '17

Valmet's gun division was sold to Sako in 1986 and IIRC discontinued and Valmet went bankrupt in 1989. There's literally no chance of "someone from Valmet" being in bed with the Liberals when the company didn't exist in 1995.

-3

u/ezSpankOven Apr 16 '17

Good point. If valmets were ever actually issued to the natives this still could have been a reason why they were chosen. I feel it's more likely that an influential liberal had a couple.

On a side note, I used to have a .308 hunter. It was cool but not a good shooter. The non adjustable iron sight was next to useless and the scope rail was attached to the top cover.

-1

u/[deleted] Apr 16 '17

Stop ruining the image in my head of Kim Campbell getting porked by a gun salesman in the Parliament Library!

2

u/sheepsix al Apr 17 '17

I hate being that guy but Kim Campbell was PC not LIB.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 17 '17

I know, I was thinking of it through the "added stupid gun legislation" lens rather than the Liberal side.

1

u/TheCapedMoosesader Apr 17 '17

Stop ruining it he said!

1

u/89gsxr-rr Apr 19 '17

corrupt Liberal,come on,,say it ain't so,i thought tards where all so honest,