r/canadaguns • u/Whoopity_Longjohn • Apr 16 '17

Why are Valment AK's actually legal?

All AK variants are banned but I'm just curious about what difference makes the Valmet variant legal. Specific components? Caliber? Where it was made?

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u/Krazee9 on Apr 16 '17

Not bloody likely.

However, the law simply says that the "Valmet M78, Valmet Hunter, and Valmet Hunter Auto" are exempt from the ban. It does not specify Valmet of Finland. This means that, theoretically, a Canadian company could incorporate under the name "Valmet" and begin making a standard AK known as the "M78" and technically, since it is a Valmet M78, it would be exempt from the ban by name.

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u/SHaRTTSTRiKE Apr 16 '17

People have thought of that. Problem being that is kind like saying I'm going to make a company and call it "Smith & Wesson" and make SV9 pistols. Yeah I know kind of an awkward example I was going to use Colt but there is already colt canada. Anywho back on topic. Couple of things would probably happen. The real Valmet company would get upset and possibly legal action taken against you. The more likely would be the RCMP would simply classify it not as a "Valmet M78" but as a variant of an AK and therefore prohibited because well they are AKs.
One thought which was tossed around was convincing Valmet themselves make them but then I'd say with 99% certainty that the RCMP would give it a different FRT number from the originals and therefore not covered under the exemption.

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u/Krazee9 on Apr 16 '17 edited Apr 16 '17

Valmet doesn't operate within Canada (I just recently learned that the company is no longer bankrupt and has been revived) and their gun division was sold to Sako in 1986. If you operate a company under the same name as another but in a different market you're allowed to do that. See: Remington guns and Remington Household Products. It also depends on where your trademark is considered valid. We accept as valid many American trademarks, but not necessarily European ones unless those companies operate within our market.

Also the RCMP would almost certainly try and say no, however as I said, the law just says "Valmet M78" not "Valmet of Finland M78," which means if you were to take it to court there is a chance that you'd win because of the vague, stupid wording of the law. As I said, it's theoretical, because nobody has the several million dollars to waste to actually try it.

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u/adaminc Apr 17 '17

Sako didn't buy Valmet. Sako was created by Valmet as a new company to become their firearms manufacturing division, it was eventually sold to Beretta. So that is who owns it now.

So I think it might be easier to start a new company, name it whatever, and then license the designs from Beretta. That way you won't run afoul of international trademark and IP laws.

Similar to how Norinco makes the M305/M14, although they actually bought the dies and stuff, I don't know if any of that stuff would still exist. But if anyone was serious about this, you would need to talk to Beretta about it.

And just from my opinion, make the Valmet, and then slowly convert one to look like a Super VEPR in .308, lol.

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u/Krazee9 on Apr 17 '17

Umm, Sako was incorporated in 1921, Valmet in 1946. Sako and Valmet were merged in 86 to form Sako-Valmet, and that was later renamed to just Sako, which was then bought out by Beretta.

Sako was created as a gunworks primarily to recondition Russian guns before the war, Valmet was created technically as a metalworks, but ended up doing a lot of the post-war gun manufacturing for Finland until its bankruptcy in the '80s.

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u/adaminc Apr 17 '17

I stand corrected, they were both owned by the Finnish government and merged. The translation from Finnish made it sound like they created Sako to handle the firearms side.