r/canadaguns • u/Frank_Sinatra_1 • 14d ago
Application / Regulation advice Can I carry a gun case in public?
I live in downtown Toronto and often use the subway and busses to get to the ranges.
I'm currently using a Vevor gun hardcase to carry my SKS. I don't have any stickers or labels on it that screams "there's a gun inside", but I read that a gun case alone is enough to cause panic or get stopped by the police, and that you need to cover the gun case (which is impossible because the case is already HUGE).
Is this a real risk? I'm getting a ton of conflicting and unclear info online.
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u/Past-Alps6396 14d ago
Ttc bylaw 1 prohibits firearms on ttc vehicles.
https://www.ttc.ca/by-law-no-1
I know someone who would bring takedown firearms on the ttc in regular bags and was never discovered.
I believe the punishment is a hefty fine.
I doubt it is enforced very well, especially since there are lots of drug users and nut cases that are constantly harrassing people on the ttc that aren't really dealt with. I wouldn't risk it though.
I would get a nondescript pelican style case for that sort of thing that could plausibly have a wide variety of things if I were to take firearms around in toronto without a car.
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u/varsil Firearms Lawyer (Verified) 13d ago
Okay, lawyer here.
God damn, I'd hoped I had cleared this one up with a video on the topic, but here we go again:
- You cannot carry a firearm concealed. If it is not apparent that your case contains a firearm, either by shape of the case or by labeling, you are in violation of this law.
Penalties: Likely a fine, but also a firearm ban and loss of your guns.
Cases that look like they're containing something else (camera bags, guitar cases, etc) run afoul of #1.
Having an obvious gun case, and then concealing that by putting a blanket around it or the like is going to violate #1.
The TTC and many other transit lines ban firearms. Violating that is a small ticket...
But also possibly grounds for the CFO to revoke your firearms licence.
Don't fuck around. The finding out sucks real bad.
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u/DashCameraman 13d ago
My PAL course instructor specifically recommended getting a guitar case to not freak out the general public if you're transporting in and out of a non-permissive environment. Isn't it only a concealed weapon if its in use and not in transport? You're supposed to conceal it from public view when its in your car.
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u/varsil Firearms Lawyer (Verified) 13d ago
Your PAL instructor is not really qualified to give advice like this.
You are required to conceal it from public view when leaving it in an unattended vehicle as part of transport, but not otherwise.
Our laws are idiotic.
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u/Familiar_Hunt_5164 13d ago
Thanks Runkle, you are the best!
My PAL instructor even said it was ok to drink a couple of beers while shooting!
Luckily I didn't find out the hard way that you have to be completely sober or else it's considered "Careless use of a firearm"!
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u/DashCameraman 13d ago
What about walking around the woods with a chiappa little badger unloaded in a bag? Is that legal?
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u/Sad-Stop-2401 13d ago
PAL course instructors are gun safety instructors. Canadian firearm law, regulation and statues are a very different animal.
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u/Rippin_Fat_Farts 12d ago
Would a non descript rectangular soft sided case that's made specifically for rifles but doesn't necessarily say "this case contains a gun" on it be concealing? Just curious
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u/JohnnyCanuck133 14d ago
Get yourself a Desperado style guitar case. /s
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u/sandyvaginitis 13d ago
Are these legal?
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u/Mirageswirl 13d ago
No, not in Canada
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u/Memorywipe 13d ago
With trigger locks on the gun, why wouldnt it?
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u/Mirageswirl 13d ago
It is treated as carrying a concealed weapon if it is intended to hide that it is a rifle case.
Here is Ian Runkle’s legal summary:
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u/Borealbound 13d ago edited 13d ago
What if you taped on a sign with the words “legal firearm” onto the case?
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u/Mirageswirl 13d ago
Probably depends on how the judge is feeling that day. How big, legible and distinct is the font?
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u/DrinkMoreBrews 14d ago
Just throw a couple Pokemon stickers on the outside lol. Lots of people use the Pelican cases for their cards in that community.
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u/Who_is_I_today 13d ago
More likely to get robbed for Pokemon cards than a gun lol /s
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u/DrinkMoreBrews 13d ago
Lmao I was actually thinking that. Imagine you rob a dude for his PSA 10 Charizard open the case and there’s a handgun lol
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u/nzhockeyfan 14d ago
You are not allowed to use the TTC in possession of a firearm. TTC bylaw no.1 3.33 a
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u/Tricky-Locksmith-455 14d ago
If you can afford sks you can afford uber
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u/Who_is_I_today 13d ago
At today's prices absolutely. If op bought it pre COVID with a case of ammo.... Pretty cheap back then. I think it an sks plus 1000 rounds of corrosive for $299.99 or free if you opened a bank account. Oh wait. The Bank account thing was across the line.
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u/Rippin_Fat_Farts 14d ago
Just get a soft sided, unmarked, rectangular rifle case from Cabela's. 90% of the population wouldn't know it's a gun case the the 10% that do are also gun people so wouldn't care
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u/Riversruinsandwoods 14d ago
Ik people who use gun cases to carry camera equipment and stuff along those lines. Think you’ll be fine. If you get a chance maybe slap some music stickers on it or something to that affect.
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u/vARROWHEAD 14d ago
Don’t do that
It’s illegal. https://youtu.be/jdLZ0wdE7ro?is=WQGybWtPZPqQqX1n
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u/Not-a-Cranky-Panda 14d ago
It did not help that the man when asked by the police what he was doing told the police he "was going on a killing spree" and then went for the gun to "show" them".
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u/Spirited_Comedian225 14d ago
I think there is a law against disguising a gun case.
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u/Riversruinsandwoods 14d ago edited 14d ago
I think this would be one of those scenarios that the police might charge you and let the judge figure it out. Does it really count as disguising it if you slap some stickers on it? I would think using a guitar case as a gun case would count more as disguising it. I could be wrong though I’m not overly familiar with the case law on this.
Edit: as others have mentioned it’s illegal to bring on the TTC regardless. I’d also be worried about the off chance someone decided to try to rob you and then having to explain yourself.
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u/MourningWood1942 14d ago edited 14d ago
Check the transit rules as well. For example here in Vancouver you aren’t allowed to transport firearms on the BCRTC.
While federal regulations outline how individuals can legally transport firearms in Canada, local transit authorities retain the right to restrict them entirely.
You can however transport guitars 🎸
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u/Borealbound 13d ago
It’s also iffy with BC ferries, but I imagine firearms regularly make ferry crossings & seldom if ever cause problems because they are locked in people’s vehicles.
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u/Razul1066 14d ago edited 14d ago
Legally yes you can (assuming it is unloaded and what not).
Depending on where you carry it, you'll probably make some people uncomfortable. Someone might call the cops and word it as "he has a gun".
But legally you can, and you won't get in legal trouble, but hassle is always a risk when the public is involved.
Edit:Apparently Toronto Transit Commission has a bylaw in place making it illegal. The above advice on the public still stands elsewhere.
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u/Rippin_Fat_Farts 14d ago
Most cops are also gun guys, I'm sure if you explained the situation there wouldn't be much hassle
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u/taloncaf 14d ago
Ngl I would disagree with you, most cops are certainly not gun guys, especially in cities. I’d go so far as to say most Toronto cops would view gun guys with disdain
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u/Rippin_Fat_Farts 14d ago
I do live in rural Alberta. A lot of the guys I go to the range with and hunt with are sheriffs, CN cops, fish and wildlife and RCMP. Maybe it's different in the city.
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u/TDotxChin 14d ago
Very different in Toronto, it's an anti-gun city even though criminals sure have more rights then legal gun owners.
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u/Rippin_Fat_Farts 13d ago
I mean I'm sure if you were walking around Edmonton with a gun in your hands there'd also be a problem. But a gun case on your back I don't think anyone would bat an eye
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u/TDotxChin 13d ago
Well ofc but just to have a case and traveling within the city you will be stopped.
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u/VLADGL 13d ago
No cop is going to take a risk with a guy with a gun on a bus or a train.
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u/Rippin_Fat_Farts 13d ago
I think it would be wise to obviously not go walking around with it in your hands but a secure gun case on your back.. idk if you're friendly it's not like they're just gonna shoot you.
Ofc I say this as a white male and realize that comes with privilege
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u/TDotxChin 13d ago
Actually in Toronto you'd be the first to be arrested lol. If you are anything other than white you probably get less hassle lol.
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u/Spirited_Comedian225 14d ago
Where is a range on the TTC line ?
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u/OCTS-Toronto 14d ago
There isn't. Ranges were banned in Toronto in the 90s.
Maybe he is travelling to ajax, or to Stouffville. TTC would start your journey but never get you there
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u/ManufacturerMuch5116 14d ago
You can legally carry a NR gun in public without a case, technically, however the police and onlookers will NOT like that. The criminal code is all about intent :)
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u/Eglitarian 14d ago
The onus is on the gun owner to exercise good judgment knowing public perception around firearms though. We have zero protected rights as firearms owners in Canada so there’s no pros to pushing the envelope just to make a point or be edgy and it just hurts us in the long run. You’ll never change a majority’s opinion by confirming their bias.
Win our battles in courtrooms, parliament, and in the minds of people who are indifferent or against firearms; don’t just go making brazen points out of the idea that we’re always in the right here. Absent legal protections, ultimately the majority decides what is right, and we are not the majority.
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u/coniferslav 14d ago
Yup. As long as it's got a trigger lock and is unloaded you can sling it over your shoulder. Quite common to see up north during rifle season. The reaction you get all depends on how many pants pissers are in your community.
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u/ManufacturerMuch5116 10d ago
Trigger lock is not needed for NRs. That's fuddlore.
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u/coniferslav 10d ago
I stand corrected. I've just seen so many others do it I guess I thought it was a new rule or something
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u/Possible_Jellyfish69 14d ago
It's legal as long as you are going directly to or from range and not taking the TTC. The TTC has a bylaw against it. I recommend communauto - that's what I did until I bought a car again. I had a nosy lady ask what was in my case one time and I said sporting goods equipment lol
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u/swift_gilford 14d ago
Gun case is fine. You said it isn't labeled so i'd also argue a lot of people wouldn't even notice or pay attention to you.
In the event that you get stopped by LE, as long as everything is being transported properly there is no issue.
The only thing you do not do, because you are worried about onlookers, is to use a case that is not a gun case. i.e. no guitar gase. That is a major no-no in Canada.
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u/BorealBeats 13d ago
Not a lawyer, but my understanding is that the Supreme Court has ruled that a firearm must not be concealed while being transported in public, including for example on public transit (R v. Felawka).
Concealing the firearm could actually raise your legal risk of criminal conviction, counter intuitive though it may seem.
The court indicates that it should be in an acceptable firearm case that does not hide or disguise its contents, and unloaded and secured per the regulations.
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u/Sad-Stop-2401 13d ago edited 13d ago
This needs a comment by u/varsil. Have a look at his video on what you can use to transport firearm and what not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdLZ0wdE7ro
In very brief, due to a certain retarded judge in 1988, the Canadian firearm law is interpreted in a rather dangerous manner. Basically, the idiot Judge opined that you can not transport gun in open/visible to public and at the same time you can not conceal a firearm. What the hell does it even mean? It means.... you should carry gun in a gun case because and I quote "Gun cases are obvious and are not concealment". SMH.
Now if you cover a gun case with cloth or something, is it..... concealment? Don't ask me. Canadian firearm laws and regulations are rather... errr..... shall we say.... not as clear as we would like them to be.
What we DO know is that a gun in a gun case sitting in the locked trunk of a car (preferably the one you driving) is till date not really punished. Rest of the situation.... well, there is a high cost to find the truth.
So if I were you, I would .... go to range in a rented car (if I do not own a car outright) with my firearm locked in its trunk inside a gun case. Because it has not been prosecuted. Till now.
Now there are Bylaws applied by public transport companies too. Because fukken Transport Act gives them that power. They can fine you and call the police, if they think you have violated their bylaw and a federal or provincial law.
Honestly... one should have his own vehicle, IMHO (and very IMHO), to avoid these issues. Canadian firearm laws are so stupid and general opinion of public is so god damn hysterical when it comes to anything gun that we should err on safety to avoid the trouble of finding out where the line lies.
PS: I am not a lawyer and this is not a legal advice.
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u/snakeeatbear 14d ago
I do all the time. Ttc is a no go. You usually get some people asking and I just say it’s dj equipment. If it’s a cop be transparent as you don’t want to get a concealed weapons charge.
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u/TheBulletBuddy 14d ago
With how much BS goes on during the average day in public transportation in my city, I wouldnt do it personally. Here youd probably have some crack head trying to stab you for it the second they saw it.
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u/shooptydoop 14d ago
Standard length SKS is the size of a standard length guitar. If you want to be incognito, use a structured style guitar bag with backpack straps on it. I've used it to transport on a motorcycle in the past - less alarming than a backpack with a barrel sticking out.
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u/coniferslav 14d ago
Not sure about TTC. But a guy from from range takes the bus and bikes in Edmonton. He has one of those backpack gun cases that can carry 2 rifles. He hasn't had any issues as far as I know.
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u/rastamasta45 14d ago
Personal opinion, uber or zip car or rental. It’s not worth the risk of taking public transit with a firearm, the amount of crazies on the ttc is astronomical, people get their stuff jacked all the time.
You go on a street car or whatever and have a big case, to a crackhead, that’s treasure, they will assault you, often with a knife and then a crack head just made off with a rifle…..bad day for all.
There’s a reason this hobby is called a rich man’s sport.
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u/LeviathanOfLiberty 14d ago
Not in Toronto no, but I have carried guns in soft cases on public transit elsewhere in Canada. Perfectly legal if the transit policy doesn’t prohibit it.
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u/PinkLincoln00 14d ago
I’m sure it’ll draw attention if people think it’s a gun. Maybe look into a Yamaha keyboard case so people think it’s a keyboard💡 or get really creative and see if it’d fit in a tuba or cello case?My biggest fear wouldn’t be the police being called but someone with an illigal weapon trying to steal it from you.
Union station used to have a gun range until it was closed to “combat gun violence”. I’m not sure how many members committed crimes or how many people that saved, my guess is none, but during that time travel on public transit with a firearm would have been considered normal.
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u/adv_biker 14d ago
Federally you're good, you are not to either brandish a firearm... or to conceal a firearm. A proper gun case is the best way to do this.... but as other have said, the city may well have bylaws that prohibit it. I am not anywhere near Toronto and never will live anywhere but the west.
Doing it in a guitar case is concealment. You can certainly put stickers on a gun case. You could label the case "this is a firearm" and still be legal federally.
Just stay off your city transit that others have posted has city bylaws against it. I'm also not familiar with your provincial laws... I understand some eastern provinces require a non restricted to be cased and locked and ammo separate, that's in their hunting regs.... I'm in the west, where this is a non-issue
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u/redacted-no31 13d ago
I’d say look to see if your ranges have storage you can rent. Saves a whole hell of a lot of headache if some guy hasn’t wrote enough tickets today.
Make sure that you’ve got locks and stuff attached where tou need them on the case for transport , ect. But as a rule I’d avoid transporting a firearm on any sort of public transport.
I’d have to look into the law of it but in the trunk of a taxi would be your best bet if you don’t have your own form of transportation?
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u/Wind_0f_Pain 13d ago edited 13d ago
This seems like a really great way to get shot by nervous transit cops. Go nuts
People have been shot by cops for behaviour far less sketchy and far more benign than this. Honestly, three-quarters of the shit posted in this subreddit makes me question how some of these people ever managed to get their PAL.
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u/pinktie7418 13d ago
Bylaws aside, legally yes, but it's not recommended. These were words of my PAL instructor and I agree with him.
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u/KalashnikovParty 13d ago
on paper you can. However i wouldn’t put it past the law to charge you with cause of public distress or something like that. Don’t do it. Pay 30 for a uber rather than lose your 800 dollar sks
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u/OSINTeresting 13d ago
People in this thread saying you aren't allowed to do it are incorrect. TTC does not blanket-prohibit the transport of firearms. To wit:
Per 3.33(a), "No person, UNLESS AUTHORIZED, shall enter or remain on any TTC property that is in possession of [...] a firearm [...]", emphasis mine.
Per 1.1(b)"In this by-law, unless the context otherwise requires [...] authorization or authorized means the written permission from the TTC, received prior to the time the action is to occur"
If I were in your position, I would call TTC and ask how to get written permission.
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u/OutrageousToe7910 12d ago
Take a couple trips with your empty gun case and a couple trips with a (empty) guitar case with gun stickers on it and see if you get hassled.
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u/RNewfoundlandRegt 11d ago
Just go a few hundred times with something silly in the gun case, get stopped and searched until they grow bored.
When they start ignoring you, then you can go un harassed :)
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u/gnarley_haterson 14d ago
You're not breaking any laws but I wouldn't do it. People are stupid and cops are even more stupid. If you're into hobbies like shooting, you need a car.
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u/Bulky_Pop_8104 14d ago
When I did my PAL course, the instructor gave us all pamphlets from the RCMP on safe/legal transportation, and said to make sure we always had it with us to present to the officer in case we get pulled over “because most of them don’t actually know the rules”
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u/bosnanic 14d ago
Use common sense, 99% of people will be concerned by someone carrying a gun in public and it only takes one person to figure out your gun case has a gun inside for a 911 call to be made. Sure it is legal but you don't ever want to be in the position where you have to explain the legality of it to a police officer who got a call about some guy brining a gun onto the public bus.
Get a car or get a friend with one.
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u/andrew416705 14d ago
If you want to be as discrete as possible, while staying legal, the answer is get a soft guitar case and on the side of it, have it say in French “arme à feu” in cool cursive.
Almost no one downtown would recognize that as saying firearm yet you’re meeting every legal standard
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u/ItsaManatee 14d ago
I'd recommend a soft guitar case/ gig bag. Super inconspicuous, no one is assuming there is a gun in a guitar bag
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u/DashCameraman 14d ago
Get a guitar case.
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u/airchinapilot 13d ago
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u/DashCameraman 13d ago
My PAL course instructor specifically recommended this. You can't carry a firearm concealed but you are explicitly supposed to conceal it while in transport. Glock in the waistband? Concealed firearm. Unloaded rifle in a guitar case? Recommended part of how not to freak out the public while transporting guns.
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u/kyle_swager10 14d ago
I did my pal a couple of weeks ago. I'm pretty sure I remember my instructor saying that you can legally transport it in whatever you like, as long as it's unloaded. But don't be surprised if the police stop you if you're carrying it in like a plastic bag or something dumb that the public can see that it's a gun.
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u/th3rot10 14d ago
If it's in a guitar case or something like that, it's illegal because you're concealing it in a disguise.
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u/One_Salary_9068 14d ago
Use a guitare case .
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u/EngFarm 14d ago
Literally the case law for "guns aren't allowed to be concealed" is about a guitar case
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u/One_Salary_9068 14d ago
Would you have the article of the law... Instead of a youtube example 🤌🏼
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u/varsil Firearms Lawyer (Verified) 13d ago
Lawyer here.
The offence is carrying a concealed weapon. The Supreme Court case law is R. v. Felawka.
And I haven't checked the video link, but that's probably me in the video.
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u/One_Salary_9068 13d ago
🤣🤣🤣🤣... Wearing a riffle in TrenchCoat has nothing to do with a riffle in a case. Bro go back to lawyer school 🙏🏼
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u/varsil Firearms Lawyer (Verified) 13d ago
Maybe you need to read the actual decision, which specifically and directly addresses rifles in cases.
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u/One_Salary_9068 13d ago
No case... Just A riffle in a TrenchCoat... Thats the story.
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u/varsil Firearms Lawyer (Verified) 13d ago
Again, read the actual decision. The Supreme Court of Canada likes to make broad pronouncements of how the law works, and they did so in this case. While this was a guy with a rifle wrapped up in a cloth, they specifically spoke to requirements for rifles carried in cases.
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u/Cre_AK47 Name Prohibited by OIC 12d ago
We just did the sub a favour and banned them for 7 days, for violating Rules 2 (illegal Activity - Guitar Case) and 9 (Trolling/Spam/Disruptive Behaviour).
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u/MapleBaconBeer 14d ago
I would be careful with this suggestion. It could be considered as "concealing".
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u/houleskis 14d ago edited 14d ago
Per the TTC Bylaws/TTC Act, you cannot: https://www.ttc.ca/riding-the-ttc/safety-and-security/by-law-no-1
Past thread here covering more transit options: https://www.reddit.com/r/canadaguns/comments/rqwckq/public_transit_specifically_in_ontario_and/
Edit:
FWIW, I would just use a Zipcar or Communauto. Yes, it's definitely more expensive but at least it gets you where you want to go directly and you don't have to worry about any of these transit/legal considerations.
Where would you be going using public transit from Union anyways? I would think only Burlington Gun Club, Down Range Sports or Gagnon Shooting are your only reasonable options? Those are all 1.5-2hr one-way commutes.