r/canadaguns • u/egmstr • 29d ago

Application / Regulation advice Only lock i have for this gun currently

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Do you guys see a problem with this?
Below the ejector thingy it opens up to be just wide enough for the lock, i tried yanking it out and it is not moving, wont close either obviously

28 Upvotes

74% Upvoted

90 comments sorted by

74

u/velocity__wagon 29d ago

Not sure if that's an approved method, if it was me I'd buy a trigger lock

34

u/mwmwmwmwmmdw 29d ago

you can also store them dissembled. which for a single barrel shotgun is simple to do.

3

u/roguemenace 29d ago

This is incorrect.

rendered inoperable by the removal of the bolt or bolt-carrier, or

That is the "store disassembled" clause in the firearms act. Unfortunately you could have this thing broken down to every individual part and it would still be illegal until you added a secure locking device to it or lock it in an appropriate container.

5

u/mwmwmwmwmmdw 28d ago

the firearm is rendered inoperable in its current state. the bolt in the case of the shotgun is the receiver containing the hammer and firing pin which has been removed by the pressure bearing implement (the barrel). they didnt just write a special line in there for bolt action and semi auto rifles exclusively

2

u/roguemenace 28d ago

the firearm is rendered inoperable in its current state

Again, that's not what the law says.

(i) rendered inoperable by means of a secure locking device,

(ii) rendered inoperable by the removal of the bolt or bolt-carrier, or

(iii) stored in a container, receptacle or room that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into

You must do one of those 3 things to legally store a non-restricted firearm. That is an exhaustive list, there are no other options despite how much rational sense those other options make.

2

u/mwmwmwmwmmdw 28d ago

as with everything to do with our safe storage laws it comes down to how a judge feels that day about the vibes of the law.

0

u/roguemenace 28d ago

The law is pretty clear so unless the judge feels like cutting you a break (not going to happen) you're getting found guilty. The vibes of the law only ever go in the direction that gets you punished more for firearms, not less.

5

u/mwmwmwmwmmdw 28d ago

the dissasembly thing is being taught across pal classes in canada. and i was taught it years ago in my class. i dont know why this is the hill is some important on when its been common practice for decades now.

although OP buying an $8 trigger lock is the easiest solution.

2

u/roguemenace 28d ago

i dont know why this is the hill is some important on

Because people get taught these things, and they believe them, then they teach them to others. Then eventually they end up in jail for illegally storing their guns.

1

u/Prior-Radio8346 26d ago

This one always gets me, how is my LOCKED house with a proper hard cored door and deadbolt system different than a specifically locked room. Since when I'm home the firearms are under my direct supervision and therefore can be in any state of readiness.

1

u/roguemenace 26d ago

This one always gets me, how is my LOCKED house with a proper hard cored door and deadbolt system different than a specifically locked room.

Usually windows. You could try arguing your house is a container that's specifically designed but I wouldn't be optimistic.

Since when I'm home the firearms are under my direct supervision and therefore can be in any state of readiness.

Ehhhh, not really. It depends if they're in storage or in use.

2

u/hafetysazard 28d ago edited 28d ago

If it fits parts a) and b) of the definition of a secure locking device under SOR/98-209, then legally, it is ok.

Personally, I’d feed it under and around the receiver, maybe even a twist through the trigger guard in such a way the action would be impossible to close.

Honestly, if it completely disables the gun, in a very reliable way, it is better than nothing. Personally, if I’m not entirely confident, I’d store it in partially disassembled parts separate.

Trigger locks and cable locks are ideal, because they make it obvious at first glance. That’s not the law, but it would save a person a lot of trouble if it ever became an issue.

1

u/roguemenace 28d ago

I’d store it in partially disassembled

This is not a legal way to store this firearm.

1

u/hafetysazard 28d ago

I guess, not eh

57

u/Grouchy-Lemon2350 29d ago

I’ve been in the legal world for decades and worked with different court cases including self defence & careless storage. Unfortunately, the rot is so deep that if you end up in court over a doubtful lock, a lot will still come down to who your legal team is (how wealthy you are) and how well they know the prosecutor + judge.

Trust me, this system sucks.

24

u/izza123 29d ago

I ended up in court despite storing to the exact specification of the law. The cop believed there was an “and” when the regulations stated “or”, so it was his impression that I wasn’t in full compliance. Instead of using google like a sane person they charged me.

12

u/HankHippoppopalous 29d ago

There's an old expression when it comes to dealing with cops. You can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride

Unfortunately enough an idiot can still arrest you. It's your job to prove in court that he's an idiot.

10

u/Massive_Expression_2 29d ago

As in, he insisted that you have the guns in a locked cabinet AND have trigger locks on them? 😳

15

u/izza123 29d ago

Yes he said the regulations stated that non restricted firearms need to be both trigger locked AND locked in a container. I told him it was an OR situation but he said I must be misremembering. A judge later compelled them to drop the charges.

9

u/Massive_Expression_2 29d ago

Wow. Glad it worked out ok. Nothing more dangerous than ignorance + authority.

7

u/Captain_troublepants 29d ago

Still needed a lawyer though I’m guessing. At very least a day off work.

7

u/4r4nd0mninj4 29d ago

The process is the punishment...

4

u/velocity__wagon 28d ago

I hate that this is a thing

1

u/izza123 28d ago

I had a public defender. I got very lucky because the First Lady they assigned to my case was on her way out the door to work for another office and basically told me I was fucked. A week later a new lawyer called me and he was fully invested and outraged for me. I’ll never forget him he was awesome

11

u/mwmwmwmwmmdw 29d ago

and how well they know the prosecutor + judge.

the few times ive been in the gallery in criminal court ive been shocked how casual everyone is with each other.

it also made me understand better why law abiding owners get the book thrown at them more. the system seems to look down much harsher on people who "arent supposed" to be there vs habitual criminals who are there on a bi-monthly basis.

39

u/I-LOVE-HENRY-RIFLES 29d ago

Can’t you just disassemble the gun? Should be too hard if it’s a break action like that.

1

u/roguemenace 29d ago

No. The "disassembly" option is specifically rendering it inoperable by removing the bolt or bolt carrier. No other form of disassembly is a legal form of storage.

18

u/xthemoonx 29d ago

A trigger lock isnt expensive tho and crappy tire is open.

21

u/Whispersfine 29d ago

Again, depends on the judge you are assigned to.

41

u/h3IIfir3pho3nix N E R F G U N S 29d ago

Buy a $5 trigger lock, that's not sufficiently disabled

2

u/dirkdiggler2011 29d ago

Trigger locks can be removed in seconds using two flathead screwdrivers.

4

u/Top_Top7440 29d ago

But that would require a tool. I think the measure of a lock is that it cannot be removed without a tool. If tools were part of the equation then a safe would be "unsafe"

1

u/dirkdiggler2011 29d ago

No lock or safe is a guarantee. You can't stop someone from accessing your guns. You can only slow them down.

1

u/hafetysazard 28d ago

It is funny because one argument for safe storage was to slow you down, with the idea having to undo a lock, and load the gun, would snap a person out of any temporary insanity that might befall you.

4

u/AlmightyJumboTron 29d ago

Lock can't be removed without key and renders the firearm inoperable, how is this insufficient?

17

u/h3IIfir3pho3nix N E R F G U N S 29d ago

I guarantee you you could open the gun a little more or wear down the rubber coating by rubbing the cable against the action and it would come out. An angry cop who hasn't had their coffee this morning could probably rip it out too.

6

u/Lopsided_Ad3516 29d ago

I mean...you could drill out just about anything.

If the standard is "impregnable", most of us are probably screwed.

5

u/AlmightyJumboTron 29d ago

How is that any less secure than those locks that need a screwdriver to twist off that the stores use? Or a cop testing the trigger lock on your rifle to see it he can't slide it back to pull the trigger? It's the bare minimum, but it's sufficient

4

u/Reighzy 29d ago

Less secure because if it's a break action then it can probably be disassembled at the hinge point which removes the lock.

Also, would you really want to play in a grey area when trigger locks are universally accepted?

1

u/hafetysazard 28d ago

Which is ironic, because disassembling the gun would be a perfectly reasonable way to safely store a firearm.

0

u/roguemenace 28d ago

Safe but not legal unfortunately.

2

u/Wiggum13 29d ago

Why would a cop care if there is a trigger lock. Or any lock. It’s not required ever on a NR firearm.

0

u/roguemenace 28d ago

Because this firearm has to be locked to be legally stored?

1

u/Wiggum13 28d ago

No it doesn’t. Know your laws.

1

u/roguemenace 28d ago

Quote me the law of how you're legally storing this firearm without a lock. Please, I'd love to know.

0

u/Wiggum13 28d ago

You’re also too dumb to use google. Lol.

2

u/roguemenace 28d ago

Here I'll help you out

(i) rendered inoperable by means of a secure locking device,

(ii) rendered inoperable by the removal of the bolt or bolt-carrier, or

(iii) stored in a container, receptacle or room that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into

Which of those 3 things are you doing to this firearm without using a lock? Because you need to do 1 of the 3 for it to be legally stored.

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1

u/Prior-Radio8346 26d ago

Biggest piss off for me on some of mine, is it doesn't fit in the factory fitted hardcase with a standard trigger lock.

5

u/[deleted] 29d ago

[deleted]

1

u/roguemenace 29d ago

Disassembling a break action gun is not a legal form of storage.

6

u/HatchingCougar 29d ago edited 29d ago

If it can’t be wiggled off, would require tools to remove and the gun can’t close / discharge, then it’s fine

Lots of CDNs use locking methods other than trigger locks. For example. AR-15s commonly use magwell bolt carrier locks and not trigger locks (although they can be used as well).

Locking a break action so that it can’t close is common 

As is locking a semi auto pistol through the magwell / up through the breech so that the slide can’t close

There’s no requirement that it must be a trigger lock

Edit: ignore the numptees insisting on a trigger lock or stating that they are better / more secure (they’re not)

6

u/xx_rider nt 29d ago

At least run the cable the trigger guard it isn't going to help much other than it looks safer. Cops aren't very knowledgeable and it would be a bit harder to remove.

But please get a trigger lock asap.

2

u/DoYouGetSarcasm 29d ago

A secure locking device that renders the firearm inoperable.

I wouldn't want a cop yanking on it or trying to open the firearm more to get it out to test.

It looks unconventional but i think in the end it works if you can't get it out. I wouldn't want to rely on this myself though

2

u/theservman on 29d ago

Is it actually doing anything?

2

u/thehuntinggearguy 3gun, Mapleseed, YouTuber, SlamFire Radio, Revolver-hater 29d ago

Are you storing it in a safe/case? Is the case lockable?

2

u/IPSC_Canuck 29d ago

Why not just take it down? That lock is doing nothing.

2

u/hafetysazard 28d ago edited 28d ago

This is what the law says about what a secure locking device is.

This is what the law says about how to store a firearm.

2

u/JamieP081 29d ago

Part of the legal storage protocol is locked in a room that is difficult to break into. Is your house difficult to break into?

Im not saying dont put the cable on or dont get a trigger lock. But if your house is locked when you are not home it is legally considered locked.

If someone can break into your house they can break into whatever it is that is locking up your guns

5

u/HatchingCougar 29d ago

Unfortunately case law says otherwise.  The locked house (or vehicle) doesn’t count as a locked room / container etc

3

u/Farout771 29d ago

The 'difficult to break into' clause is for Restricted / Prohibited (but good practice all around). For NR its just either trigger / cable locked (correctly) or placed in safe or cabinet or room thats difficult to break into.

1

u/TopLemon3678 29d ago

Does that pin come out? That'll work.

1

u/Dre_the_cameraman 29d ago

Get a trigger lock (combo one, no keys to lose). But if you are going to run a cable lock like that, go through the trigger guard, so it’s at least somewhat secure looking.

1

u/Pure_Jankpainting 29d ago

Get a trigger lock

1

u/Strong-Owl-55 29d ago

Amazon trigger locks there cheap and get like a 6 pack

1

u/egmstr 29d ago

Lots of different opinions on this. I asked a friend to try anything he can to get it off and he couldn't, even though it might not look it im pretty sure its safe. But i agree that it is quite unconventional im getting a gun locker soon thats why i did this for now. Thank you everyone for the advice

1

u/4r4nd0mninj4 29d ago

The sad part is that most gun locks can be picked or decoded in minutes with less skill than most household locks. 😞

1

u/Madnmoan 29d ago

No one is breaking down ur door to check if it’s sufficiently locked, just don’t be a moron.

1

u/Expert_Sound4630 29d ago

Why not open it a little more and run it through the hinge in the bottom of the receiver.

1

u/ManufacturerMuch5116 29d ago

I only use trigger locks during transport (depending on what it is).

The most useful lock is 2-4" deck screws holding the escutcheon to the frame of the doors of your house.

1

u/ReturnOk7510 29d ago

Put the body of the lock on the underside and see if you can wrap it around twice

1

u/DarthUgly123 on 29d ago

Why not wrap it around the bottom instead of the top? That way you can't close the barrels and there is no chance of someone sliding out the lock

1

u/Saucy__Intruder 28d ago

It's probably fine but just put it in a locked container and you are golden.

1

u/itsyaboi6909 28d ago

Pull back the hammer and see how tight you can wrap the cable end through the trigger guard around it.

1

u/_XNXX_com 25d ago

Bruh. Is the cable just sitting there??!

1

u/FRANK_R-I-Z-Z-O 23d ago

You can get a trigger lock on Amazon for like $15.

And that was at a glance. They probably have cheaper ones than that even.

Delivered directly to your house.

0

u/Thelynxer 29d ago

Time to go buy a better lock, or a gun safe. Owning firearms in Canada isn't cheap. You just have to deal with it.

0

u/Madnmoan 29d ago

Every single idiot in this comment is why the pal course takes 8 hours. “Can I lock my gun like this?” “Is this legal?” “Does this work?”. It’s not that fucking deep throw any lock on it and put it in storage. Shoot it when u go shooting or hunting and don’t touch it otherwise. It’s not that fucking hard.