r/canadaguns • u/casual_canuk • May 29 '26
Application / Regulation advice Rim fire over all length question.
When it comes to legal OAL for a rim fire fire arm is the muzzle attachment included? For example if i wanted to put a folding stock on my rifle that would bring it under legal length if I attached a fake suppressor and just never removed it would it still count towards the overall length even though it could be removed with out a tool?
4
u/Girthquake2654 May 29 '26
If it was permanently fixed maybe but probably not just to be safe? The whole issue is if it can be configured to fire in a length less than 26" then its a no go, so if you really want to go through the effort maybe having a gunsmith pin and solder it would be ok but again consult someone besides reddit users for the legality.
3
u/casual_canuk May 29 '26
I get the whole consulting reddit users for legality thing but many canadian gun smiths and companies use reddit and in the past have responded to questions like this and I would consider them knowledgeable. I was under the impression from past posts that it didnt need to be permanent but needed a tool to remove it to be kosher. Same as you can technically take a buffer tube off a ar 180 or alpt of other guns and it still function but its fine if its bolted on as youd need tools to change it
1
u/Auto-Selected May 30 '26
Had a few..... read this as prematurely fixed man did my mind wonder for a moment.
2
u/International_Mud367 May 29 '26
No.
3
u/casual_canuk May 29 '26
Any reasoning in the answer? Ive seen commercial examples where it is allowed. I know for center fires it isn't allowed in determining the barrel length I.e pinning a flash rider to bring a 16 inch barrel to the 18.5 inch limit. But I was under the impression it was allowed to be used for determining the over all length
-2
u/JETRUG May 29 '26
Criminal code section 84 (2), if the muzzle device is structurally part of the barrel itself then it's counted towards OAL. Otherwise it's generally considered an accessory and not included.
Barrel length
(2) For the purposes of this Part, the length of a barrel of a firearm is
(a) in the case of a revolver, the distance from the muzzle of the barrel to the breach end immediately in front of the cylinder, and
(b) in any other case, the distance from the muzzle of the barrel to and including the chamber,
but does not include the length of any component, part or accessory including any component, part or accessory designed or intended to suppress the muzzle flash or reduce recoil.
7
u/Hot_Cheesecake_905 May 29 '26
This is not applicable to rimfires as there are no barrel length requirements.
Rimfires seem to fall into a grey area as only overall length is required. Barrel length is of no relevance for rimfires.
-3
u/MasterScore8739 May 29 '26 edited May 29 '26
I don’t remember where exactly I found the I’ve quoted previous, but no. A muzzle attachment does not count towards barrel length in Canada.
If I find someone better, I’ll update this.
the barrel length is the distance from the muzzle of the barrel to and including the chamber.
That’s from the Non-Resident Firearm Declaration Form. I’m trying to find just the generalized on for firearms remaining in Canada.
Edit:
Okay, found a better reference.
For firearms other than revolvers, the barrel length is the distance from the muzzle of the barrel to and including the chamber, but it does not include the length of any attachments. Refer to the diagram.
This is from the Application to Register Firearms and is current as of 2022. With how our laws are, I highly doubt it’s changed to allow an attachment to count towards barrel length.
5
u/Hot_Cheesecake_905 May 29 '26 edited May 29 '26
the barrel length is the distance from the muzzle of the barrel to and including the chamber.
This only applies to centerfire rifles, rimfire does not have barrel length minimums.
Rimfires just need to be 660mm long minimum not to be classified as a restricted firearm.
Permanently attached muzzle devices should count towards overall length, which is the only metric that matters for a rimfire. It's really no different than a removable picatinny stock.
As for the folding stock, if your gun can fire while folded, it won't meet the minimum length definitions, so I avoided getting a folding stock for my 10/22. It's too bad there aren't more fixed picatinny stocks on the market though, lots of cheap folding ones.
3
u/MasterScore8739 May 29 '26
You know what, you are absolutely right. I ended up going down a bit of a rabbit hole focusing on the barrel length.
I can’t find anywhere on either the RCMP website or firearms program where they mention any legal way of measuring the OAL.
In my mind though if an attachment to the barrel does not count towards its length for legal measurements, I can’t see how it would count towards the overall length of the firearm for a legal measurement either.
1
u/Hot_Cheesecake_905 May 29 '26
I can’t find anywhere on either the RCMP website or firearms program where they mention any legal way of measuring the OAL.
Yeah, there’s nothing defined for rimfires, so it’s up for interpretation.
As for permanently attaching muzzle devices, anyone know where to get Rocksett in Canada? Similarly Vibra-Tite VC-3? It seems like we have a shortage of these threadlockers.
2
u/MasterScore8739 May 29 '26
Is there a defined way for centre fire when it comes to measuring overall length?
I can’t even find anything for them outside of needing an 18.6” barrel and above 26” OAL.
If rockset isn’t an option, I’m sure a pin and weld would be just as solid. 🤷🏽♂️
1
u/chillyrabbit May 29 '26 edited May 29 '26
In the FRT processing table guide, there is a slight throwaway line that overall length is measured with all attachments.
https://dennisryoung.ca/2016/05/12/rcmp-release-firearms-reference-table-frt-processing-procedures/
dealing with barrel extensions/flash hiders, etc.:
represent the true barrel length in child entries.
in barrel length notes mention the availability of the extension/flash hider and what the overall length is when these parts are included.
in Canadian Law Comments mention that the extension/flash hider, etc. is not recognized as part of the barrel length in the Criminal Code and therefore cannot be included in the barrel length.
Additionally there have been several cases of firearms having barrel attachments be considered for overall length.
The 2 examples that come to mind is
the GSG15SE, which had the wrong faux suppressor installed, and a longer one was allowed to be installed to remain NR.
The Troy PAR was noted by IRUNGUNS as possibly being R when they were importing the first batches, but had it reevaluated to be NR when including the flash hider.
1
u/MasterScore8739 May 29 '26
Welp, a letter from the RCMP stating that is proof enough for me I guess.
I’m going to have to keep this one in my back pocket.
1
u/gspotcowboy May 29 '26
I can’t see how it would count towards the overall length of the firearm for a legal measurement either.
Barrel length measurement is defined in the code/act. Rimfires are not subject to barrel length requirements and therefore OAL applies
1
u/MasterScore8739 May 29 '26
I’d just like to state that I’ve been made aware attachments to the barrel do count towards overall length.
However what my line of thought was is that is something like a pinned/welded muzzle device does not count towards the overall length of the barrel in a legal sense, then it wouldn’t count towards it for the firearms overall length either.
Since a barrel is designed for either a threat protector (does not increase length at all) or an attachment, they would measure at the shortest possible configuration.
1
u/casual_canuk May 29 '26
Thats the exact issue im running into now. Im perfectly fine with a fixed stock but having trouble finding a nice fixed stock with a 1913 mount and im not keen on running a buffer adapter
1
u/Hot_Cheesecake_905 May 29 '26
I'm perfectly fine with a fixed stock but having trouble finding a nice fixed stock with a 1913 mount
SBI just released a fixed stock. It's well-made but barebones, and a tad too long.
Midwest Industries also has a fixed stock that is available from time to time at CSC in Calgary.
I was hoping to get a cheap airsoft stock, but most are folding. You should be able to pin or weld them fixed, but I didn't bother going down that route.
1
u/casual_canuk May 29 '26
The sub 26 inch oal non restricted that applies to guns with out folding stocks thats only if they come that way from the factory or if you get them verified right? I plan on running a 8 inch barrel so even with a fixed stock i could be a tad short with out a muzzle device
1
u/MasterScore8739 May 29 '26
It applies to all guns.
If you add a folding stock and the rifle becomes shorter than 26”, the stock has to fold in such a way that the rifle cannot function.
If it can still function while being collapsed/folded, then in its smallest functioning state it must remain over 26”.
As far as I’m aware the only time a firearm needs to be verified is if you’re changing classifications. So if it folds below 26 and function, it needs to be verified as a restricted firearm.
1
u/casual_canuk May 29 '26
There are expectations to the 26 inch oal rule such as the mares leg and similar i believe i seen a post about someone submitting a frt on a personally configured gun under 26 inch with out a folding stock that got approved but I cant seem to find it now
1
u/Remarkable_Vanilla34 May 29 '26
The mares leg is manufactured and imported that way, so its legal somehow, some one at the RCMP labs was cool that day.
1
u/MasterScore8739 May 29 '26
It’s not so much an exception as it is because a mares leg is a manual action.
I’m fairly certain the 26 rule is applied to semi-automatic firearms.
15
u/Loud_Cap_4250 May 29 '26
It’s legal it does add to OAL for rimfire but does not count towards barrel length