Recurring Canadaguns Politics and Debate Thread

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[u/Red_Shrinp556]

A question that’s been pretty beat to death at this point, but would you want to see a constitutional right to bear arms similar to the United States, along with similar laws? (Permitless carry, no magazine capacity restrictions, suppressors)

[u/RydNightwish → u/[deleted]]

One correction. Along with "not murica, Canadians have an inarguable fetish for mediocrity. Liberals love the smell of thier own farts and the state of things as long as they can feel they are better than just america rather than striving to actually be better than half or more other members of the G7.

kanaduh is the fondling my own cheeks meme brought to life.

[u/gamercast1337 → u/RydNightwish]

Its why I am okay when America does good economically politically etc. Obviously it stops China from doing its shit the better america is blah blah helps us trade wise too blah blah but most importantly it makes canadians so fucking mad when america is doing better. And thats one of the few things left that makes me happy, seeing canadians so fucking mad because of our self inflicted mediocrity.

[u/Natural_Comparison21 → u/RydNightwish]

Personally I find the G7 to be kind of a limited sample pool. I think comparing ourselves to countries in the OECD would make more sense. Which even if you do where not looking hot in metrics that matter such as housing to income ratio. (Where 15.4 points over the OECD average.) https://www.statista.com/statistics/237529/price-to-income-ratio-of-housing-worldwide/?srsltid=AfmBOopyRrVO54g0Kn2MRD-W4yQ2TkzF2yh-smhD71gp1Ig_zHtCyMNq

[u/99spider → u/Red_Shrinp556]

Given a magic choice of a US style right to bear arms in this country, I'd take it. I don't think that it is necessarily the best system that could exist, but it is the best we would ever have.

I think the ideal system would be one similar to the Czech Republic, where the shall issue license to purchase and own a handgun is a carry permit. If you can't be trusted to carry a handgun, I don't see why you should be trusted to own one. In that sense it is actually quite similar in philosophy to 2nd amendment style constitutional carry, but with an upfront barrier to entry that ensures competence and excludes those with dangerous criminal history.

The problem is that I don't trust this country to ever implement such a system, and even if it somehow did, I have no faith that it would actually last. Our opposition will never be satisfied. We will always be scapegoated, and our privileges under our laws will always be eroded. Canadian political views on aggregate are, frankly, dystopian.

When the leaders of this country decided to draft the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, they specifically chose to maintain a nuclear option just in case they need to violate your right to life, or your right to a fair trial, or your right against cruel and unusual punishment. What's worse is that people in this country unironically argue that section 33 is a good thing, just in case the Supreme Court gets all uppity and tells the government "no, you cannot legally enact a holocaust". All that tells me is that the average Canadian fantasizes themselves as an oppressor, rather than fearing being oppressed.

So, given the political philosophy that we have the misfortune to live under, if I had a magic choice between adding a real (immune to section 33) right to bear arms to our charter, versus replacing the firearms act with a good faith Czech style licensing system, I'd take the right to bear arms.

[u/HappyCan7250 → u/Red_Shrinp556]

For the most part, yes. 

I'm okay with our licensing system, at least aspects of it. I do like making people gain some basic competency in a safe setting before buying a gun. In the US its fairly common and easy for someone to have a friend or family member reach them, but that's not always the case for Canadians. I do like that people have to prove competency and safe handling, to a certain extent 

I do certainly wish we had suppressors, and access to hand gun purchases again.

The concealed carry is a tough one for me. I morally, support it, from a basic rights perspective, BUT I hate seeing in the US when what would normally have been a small fist fight, maybe a couple of punches between 2 men, turns into a shooting and death. However, there is also many cases where someone saves their own life, or a lived ones life, because they were carrying. It is a complex issue. I just don't want people in the cities to necessarily resort to pulling out a handgun over a road rage incident, because while 99% would not, one or two would. I support it in theory, but I think the execution of it would need to be careful. It also varies massively from state to state, some allow it for everyone, some are very strict. Some sort of middle ground maybe would work here. I also absolutely support individuals being able to carry handguns in the woods without needing to get an ATC, I think that is ridiculous that they need approval to say take a handgun on a deer hunt in bear country.

The magazine restrictions here are ridiculous and have never saved a single life. Remove them.

Ultimately, I think a blend between our system (pre-2020, or maybe say Harper era after the LGR was gone), combined with some aspects of the US system, would be a happy middle ground.

It's a complex subject, but our system is awful. I think it was good in the past, and I would've been content with our laws around say 2014, and said we had a fairly good system, not perfect, but good. 

[u/Beneficial-Ride-4475 → u/Red_Shrinp556]

I would prefer something more along the lines of what the Czechs personally.

"The right to defend one's own life or the life of another person even with the use of a weapon is guaranteed under the conditions laid down by law."

Now I would also add something along the line of, "the right to sustain one's own life or the life of another person through hunting" & "the right to keep a weaopn/s for that purpose," but otherwise I'd leave the Czech wording unchanged as far as self defense goes.

[u/RydNightwish → u/Red_Shrinp556]

No. And the reason being is that the constitution is still largely dictated by the laurentian strip. Any "right" to arms would not be based on reason or practicality but what least upsets the sensitivities of montreal and toronto. Ergo it would be functionally useless if it exists at all.

The better way is to strengthen property rights, self defence and offload them to provincial jurisdiction and discretion. Naturally, some get left behind (move then) but some getting ahead is infinitely better than none getting ahead.

[u/I-LOVE-HENRY-RIFLES → u/Red_Shrinp556]

No. I want castle law where you can use firearms as a tool to protect yourself. But that’s it. Something more like what the Czech have is better. Self defence with any tool is allowed and guns are one of the tools. But no CC. The amount of road rage shootings would be insane. 

[u/Natural_Comparison21 → u/I-LOVE-HENRY-RIFLES]

You do know you can get a conceal carry license in the Czech Republic right? However I agree with everything else. I think that it should be in the constitution that the government can't ban weapons at random and must grant someone a license unless a good reason is present why they should not have a license. As we live in a society that is supposed to value innocent until proven guilty.

[u/Natural_Comparison21 → u/[deleted]]

Why? It’s proven to be fine if done correctly.

[u/Natural_Comparison21 → u/[deleted]]

Sorry but I presume people innocent until proven guilty. Sorry you don’t have that mentality.

[u/InitialAd4125 → u/[deleted]]

Does this logic extend to the police and brinks truck drivers?

[u/InitialAd4125 → u/[deleted]]

"No because they have a job they will lose."

And I wouldn't lose my job if I got into road rage and shot some people? Like I'd expect a fair bit more of a fucking punishment for road raging and shooting at people hell I'd expect more punishment if it was a cop.

[u/Nilotaus → u/InitialAd4125]

hell I'd expect more punishment if it was a cop.

lol

lmao, even

[u/Natural_Comparison21 → u/[deleted]]

A cop will automatically lose there job if for some reason the Canadian government said “Okay no more guns for cops anymore.” Along with saying “No more guns for brinks trucks drivers.” They would lose there jobs?

[u/Red_Shrinp556 → u/I-LOVE-HENRY-RIFLES]

A Czech gun license automatically grants you the ability to carry.

[u/gamercast1337 → u/Red_Shrinp556]

Its not even something you need to argue or fill out a form for right? Isnt there more paperwork if you want to use it for non self defense reasons like collecting hunting etc?

[u/DoYouGetSarcasm → u/Red_Shrinp556]

The right to bear arms means a lot of people get guns without checks, balances, or education. I think there should be required education on safety some dairy of licensing/background checks.

The right to bear arms is too far and to easy and wide access to guns for my liking.

But we're not going to have a sudden conversion to that here, it would first be movement towards better firearms laws. So I'd generally support the 'right to bear' people's efforts on firearms until we get far enough that I'm happy.