Stand on Guard - Conservative Party of Canada

[u/GhostProtocolGaming]

https://www.conservative.ca/stand-on-guard-2/

The bill makes important changes to Section 34 of the Criminal Code so that force is presumed to be justified if used against an illegal intruder. Conservatives first announced the ‘Stand on Guard’ principle back in August, asking the government to introduce legislation in the fall session.

[u/The_King_of_Canada]

Yep. Its the time of year where they won't be hurt by this politically so they can give us our badly written, doomed from the beginning, waste of time token bill so they can pretend they're on our side.

Fuck the CPC man.

Enough incompetence. Enough MAGA lite politics. Enough culture war bullshit. Work with the LPC and fucking govern or theyll lose even more MPs.

[u/Lumindan → u/The_King_of_Canada]

Enough incompetence. Enough MAGA lite politics. Enough culture war bullshit. Work with the LPC and fucking govern or theyll lose even more MPs.

Have they not being doing that? They've had plenty of amendments in the house. Their food affordability act got shot down by the Liberals. This will most likely get shot down.

It's funny how you demand and stamp your feet that the conservatives do something then when they do you go "NO NOT THAT LIKE, GRR PP BAD".

[u/The_King_of_Canada → u/Lumindan]

Their food affordability act got shot down by the Liberals

Because it was just a name for a bill to cut all taxes that was designed to fail. Just like this bill. They don't give a shit about affordability they just want you to think they do.

It's funny how you demand and stamp your feet that the conservatives do something then when they do you go

Because the names for their bills are not the same as what the bills actually do and they're doing it in bad faith. If they were serious about lowering food bills they would go to the LPC and start talks and come up with a bi-partisan plan. But they don't because they don't actually care and they just want to stomp their feet and complain for sound bites and campaigning.

Stop reducing my arguments to PP bad or CPC bad. I have valid points to make and you know it.

[u/Lumindan → u/The_King_of_Canada]

Because it was just a name for a bill to cut all taxes that was designed to fail. Just like this bill. They don't give a shit about affordability they just want you to think they do.

Care to point out where in the act is was designed to fail or are you just going to regurgitate the same talking points?

People like you are never happy, the conservatives table things, you cry about it. They amend things, you cry about it, they let things pass, you cry about it.

Because the names for their bills are not the same as what the bills actually do and they're doing it in bad faith. If they were serious about lowering food bills they would go to the LPC and start talks and come up with a bi-partisan plan. But they don't because they don't actually care and they just want to stomp their feet and complain for sound bites and campaigning.

Thats what the affordable foot act was, they also amended and worked with the Liberals on the gst cut because it was better then nothing, you're so blinded by your hatred it's not even funny, it's sad.

Stop reducing my arguments to PP bad or CPC bad. I have valid points to make and you know it.

I'm not reducing your arguments, You've done a fine job outting yourself. I just pointed out the obvious.

The Cpc gives us token shit like this when they dont have to worry about politics

Oh please. Its token month where the CPC pretends we exist.

Seriously? Look at the polls. Everyone loves Carney. PP isnt even popular with his party he just has a death grip on it and his inability to change or let go is costing us.

Fuck the CPC man.

That took me less than 5 minutes to scroll through the thread. You're so partisan locked it's unreal. Half of your comments have been PP bad and CPC bad, all the points you've made aren't even grounded in fact. They're based on your feelings. I don't quite care how you feel, but I do care you're spreading objectively wrong information.

[u/AdeptArt → u/Lumindan]

Guys I am all for civil debate, just try to make sure this doesn't spiral out of hand. I'm not going to remove this or any of the previous replies but please, no name calling going forward. I have to point out that u/The_King_of_Canada did not partake in any personal attacks. Try to keep disagreement civil & respectful, please and thank you (and this goes for everyone else reading this reply).

[u/Lumindan → u/AdeptArt]

I'm done with it.

If they want to spout misinformation, they can do it all they want. I took a shot at debunking their rampant partisan takes. If I've broken any rules you guys can take appropriate action. I'd like to think I've been incredibly civil given the contents of this thread.

[u/AdeptArt → u/Lumindan]

This was precautionary more than anything. My personal take is I would rather you focus on addressing the points (which you have been doing well, btw) rather than the person (like calling him blinded by hatred, which may or may not be true but isn't strictly relevant either way). But nothing here crosses the line so don't worry about that.

Just because I've seen these things devolve into online shouting matches (and then we issue warnings/bans and nuke the thread) I wanted to put out a reminder in advance.

Thanks for your understanding.

edit: Also, just to be clear, this is no way meant to be a message targeted towards just you. I appreciate the civil response to my message. This is true for everyone else on the subreddit. We keep disagreements civil (like adults) and avoid resorting to personal attacks.

[u/The_King_of_Canada → u/Lumindan]

Care to point out where in the act is was designed to fail or are you just going to regurgitate the same talking points?

Putting out a bill while you are the official opposition and not getting bi-partisan support to pass it means it was designed to fail.

Thats what the affordable foot act was

Dude. It was supposed to cut taxes for food by making them except from the carbon tax, getting rid of the plastics ban, "boosting competition" with no mechanics for how, and getting rid of recycling rebates. It was a nothing burger designed to fail that wouldn't lower the cost of food.

I'll say it again. As a previous voter of their party Fuck the CPC.

[u/Lumindan → u/The_King_of_Canada]

Putting out a bill while you are the official opposition and not getting bi-partisan support to pass it means it was designed to fail.

You do realize the opposition tables things all the time through out the history of Canada. I understand why you keep repeating the same line about how it's designed to fail but it really does not hold up at all.

Dude. It was supposed to cut taxes for food by making them except from the carbon tax, getting rid of the plastics ban, "boosting competition" with no mechanics for how, and getting rid of recycling rebates. It was a nothing burger designed to fail that wouldn't lower the cost of food.

Sure, I'll break it down and humour you since you clearly don't understand the act.

carbon tax

The carbon price applies throughout the entire supply chain, fertilizer production, farm fuel (partially exempt but not fully), grain drying, trucking, food processing, refrigeration, and retail logistics. Exempting food production and distribution reduces stacked costs at every stage, not just the grocery store shelf. Even small percentage reductions compound across the chain. Thats basic math.

getting rid of the plastics ban

Scrapping the plastics ban isn’t about politics like you claim, it’s about packaging costs. Many of the mandated alternatives are significantly more expensive than conventional plastic. Those costs get passed directly to consumers. Removing the ban lets producers use the cheapest safe packaging option, which matters in a business that runs on razor-thin margins.

boosting competition

Competition lowers cost, simple as is. Canada’s grocery sector is heavily concentrated on a handful of stupidly powerful bodies that make the entry point nearly impossible for the little guy. Part of the act invovled limiting anti-competitive property covenants that block competitors and strengthening Competition Bureau powers.

You can argue about how effective they’d be, but pretending there are no mechanics is just ignoring the tools government already uses in competition policy.

getting rid of recycling rebates

recycling rebates and compliance programs aren’t free. Those costs are built into packaging and distribution fees that retailers and suppliers pay which again end up in grocery prices.

A fair criticism would be that the plan might only produce modest reductions, not that it would do nothing. Those are two very different arguments. If you'd stop with the constant CPC bad takes, you'd actually be able to see how this would've been good for Canadians.

I'll say it again. As a previous voter of their party Fuck the CPC.

And there it is. Kinda says it all doesn't it.

[u/HappyCan7250 → u/Lumindan]

I think you argued your point very well. 

I personally think the CPC isn't perfect, but they're our best bet to get out of the hole our country has dug itself into. It sure as hell is not the same party that ran it into the ground. CPC is also the ONLY party that made it part of their platform to repeal basically all the gun bans (the OICs at least, to repeal C21 (the original ban) would likely require a CPC majority. The OICs all could immediately and easily be repealed though, as we all know.

And just economically, we thrived under Harper. It's easy to criticize the Conservatives for "not doing anything" when they haven't been in government for over 10 years now. I think the CPC deserves a chance in government before saying "oh it's all fake promises". 

The guy just has a bone to pick with CPC. He's clearly one of the guys who voted along with the elbows up crowd and voted to continue trying to seize all of our private property. 

Maybe he's one of the elbows up folks who just got their license to "protect Canada" from the mythical USA invasion.

[u/The_King_of_Canada → u/HappyCan7250]

As i said in one of my other comments i voted for the NDP. I specifically didn't vote for the LPC because of the gun ban. I didnt vote for the CPC because they kept running a sensationalist instead of a practical one. That and after 2 years of hearing Pierre say that the country sucks and its all Trudeaus fault got tiring.

I liked Harper. I like my TFSA. I like that he got rid of the Long Gun Registry. His last year sucked economically. The CAD tanked from above the USD to 80 cents. The economy free falled. In my non economist opinion its because he sold off assets that generated revenue like the Canadian Wheat Board to balance his budget while cutting tax revenue for corporations and the wealthy and he focused on selling resources rather than increasing production.

Still Harper was practical Pierre is a sensationalist.

The US isnt going to invade us. Their economy would take too much of a hit. Their businesses would lose money and thats what motivates Trump.

But i do like buying Canadian and would rather spend my money locally.

My issue with the CPC is that i feel betrayed by them. And their token firearms lines that disappear around election time aren't enough for me to swallow the rest of their platform.

[u/HappyCan7250 → u/The_King_of_Canada]

I'm glad you're at least one of the lefties who can have a cordial discussion. Both sides are guilty of pretty vitriolic rhetoric. I'm guilty of it too, so I appreciate you taking the time to explain your reasoning. One thing we can all agree on at least is firearms are not the issue in this country. 

I don't believe the CPC is "tokenist" so to say, about firearms. Even now, well after election, we still regularly see CPC MPs bringing the firearms subject up fairly regularly in the house, it just doesn't get blasted over media everywhere, you have to actually watch clips from the HOC, but they do routinely continue to bring it up, and I'm thankful for that. The party is more than Pierre, and even though Pierre isn't bringing it up, other conservative MPs continue to speak about it frequently. Conservative MPs have even attended several of the protests in recent months, which is nice to see.

I personally strongly dislike the way the NDP propped up the Liberals for the last 4 years, and that they did very little to stop Trudeau from steamrolling the bans. It was nice to see Kinew from Manitoba break from the party line and speak out against the gun bans. Maybe someday their can be some sort of alliance between CPC and NDP on some issues, but those days seem far off. I personally just dislike NDP spending and regulatory policy, they are the party of over regulation, just like the Liberals, which is how we got into this mess in the first place. I prefer to have government involved as little as possible on my life, outside of core services, I can manage the rest myself, which is very contrary to modern day Liberal and NDP policy.

Either way, thank you for the cordial reply. It is nice when, for once, opposing sides of the spectrum can share opinions without it turning toxic, which is rare.

The political theatrics in the HOC from both sides is tiring. CPC, LPC, and NDP are all guilty of it. I'm tired of political slogans from all sides. I swear the HOC sometimes is more like an elementary school playground than elected politicians making 200-300k a year. The way they scream and insult each other, from all sides, is pretty ridiculous. 

[u/The_King_of_Canada → u/Lumindan]

I understand why you keep repeating the same line about how it's designed to fail but it really does not hold up at all.

It does when they don't seek bi-partisan support.

The carbon price applies throughout the entire supply chain, fertilizer production, farm fuel (partially exempt but not fully), grain drying, trucking, food processing, refrigeration, and retail logistics. Exempting food production and distribution reduces stacked costs at every stage, not just the grocery store shelf. Even small percentage reductions compound across the chain. Thats basic math.

All of which were made except later by the LPC before they removed the carbon tax by the way and prices still haven't dropped.

it’s about packaging costs.

Packaging plastics weren't affected by the ban from what I just looked up.

but pretending there are no mechanics is just ignoring the tools government already uses in competition policy.

Then it was just the typical "we need more competition" but with more words and no real action.

A fair criticism would be that the plan might only produce modest reductions, not that it would do nothing.

Modest? It wouldn't lower prices by any reasonable measure. They got rid of the Carbon tax and prices didn't go down. So someone was lying.