r/canadaguns • u/ParalyzedNeckUp • Apr 01 '24
PSA: Crusader Crux
I bought this rifle as soon as it came out and was really excited as I’ve been enjoying my Templar. My first impressions were not great. When it got here the bolt carrier group was locked forward and stuck. I had to dismantle it and when I did the rear takedown pin just fell out. Then I had to beat the shit out of the lower receiver to get it to even separate from the upper due to there being too much friction between the upper and lower. I had to use a pair of pliers to remove the BCG from the chamber because it was stuck for a reason I cannot figure out.
Today I took it out for the first time. My first 15 rounds went fine and I was really impressed with the accuracy at 100m with the standard iron sights, and the trigger felt great. In my next 5 rounds I had 3 failure to extract issues resulting in the BCG ramming a live round into the back of the empty casing in the chamber, resulting in the casing of the live round being dented and the bullet being shoved down into the casing. On my 5th and final mag, I fired one shot, which resulted in my extractor snapping off.
When I got home and examined the rifle further, I noticed two of the bipod MLOK nuts had backed off, pieces of my extractor fragmented in the upper receiver, and an extraordinary amount of brass inside the rifle, like a ton.
I paid $3954 for this rifle. Basically $4000. So I’m obviously not thrilled that it feels so cheap and that it broke after literally 21 shots. I will be attempting to reach out to crusader for a new/better extractor. I am attempting to manage my expectations and frustrations.
TLDR: difficult to take down, feels really cheap for the price, and the extractor breaks after ~20 shots.
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u/MostEnergeticSloth Apr 01 '24
Should've waited for a Tavor 7 to come back in stock. You could've had a reliable rifle AND 200+ rounds of ammo. And possibly still had money leftover.
These companies are just stealing your guys' money at this point.
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u/escv_69420 Apr 02 '24
reckon they'll come back in before the election? I guess they got their own problems over there right now too.
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u/MostEnergeticSloth Apr 02 '24
The election as in within the next year and a half? I'd say it's probably a safe bet, but no bet is guaranteed.
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u/escv_69420 Apr 02 '24
I'm just wondering if maybe we're not getting them out of ban fears, but then again it would make sense to send a bunch for pre-ban hype buying.
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u/DJJ0SHWA Apr 01 '24
Dude what magical spell did Crusader arms cast on you to get you to spend 4000$ on a untested, rifle from a known shady company????
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u/ParalyzedNeckUp Apr 01 '24
For starters read my username. But I had had nothing but fun with the Templar. I figured they probably would have taken what they learned with their mistakes on the Templar and implemented it into the crux. Guess I was very wrong. I’m not even sure there’s quality control on these rifles.
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Apr 01 '24
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u/ParalyzedNeckUp Apr 01 '24
There is discolouration around the rim and gouges out of the brass on the rim edges. I saved one casing of both the brands that I shot. The rest all looked the same as the ones I kept
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Apr 01 '24
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u/ParalyzedNeckUp Apr 01 '24
No not that I can see. All the primers looked fine to me. I did just reinspect the brass I kept and in the Winchester spent casing there is considerable bulging and a small crack about a centimetre above the rim, but nothing like that on the spent Federal casing. But there is more dents and scrapes in the side of the casings than I’m used to seeing.
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Apr 01 '24
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u/ParalyzedNeckUp Apr 01 '24
I know now days 7.62 NATO and .308 are supposed to be pretty much interchangeable, but I’m starting to wonder if the chamber is actually for 7.62 NATO and not 308. The 7.62 NATO camber is usually about 0.006 to 0.010 inches longer than a 308 and I’m curious if this could be causing headspace issues. Paired with the slightly higher pressure from 308 rounds due to the thinner case walls, it could explain the amount of brass flying around in the rifle, and the bulging and crack on the Winchester cases. Judging from the extractor mark on the casing, the bulging and crack is on the area of the case that would be facing down towards the ground. I’m not sure if that would be any help in investigating the issue, just what I’m observing. I appreciate you reaching out
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Apr 01 '24 edited Apr 16 '24
[deleted]
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u/ParalyzedNeckUp Apr 01 '24
I know, it’s just nice to see any company reach out and throw in their two cents
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u/jeffQC1 Apr 01 '24 edited Apr 02 '24
Every single human being that own / used to own a Templar: "First time?"
Real shit, of all the 180 rifles, the Templar must be the worst example ever. At least the WK's will work just fine when you fix the factory issues (Adjustable gas valve, brass piston bushing, etc...) They're also subtantially cheaper and easier to work on.
The Templar 100% feels like a Gen 0.5 prototype that shouldn't ever have gone full production.
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u/scud-running Apr 02 '24
All of the Canadian 180 rifles are trash idk why they can’t figure it out. I get it’s a volatile market and it doesn’t make sense to invest too much but damn they suck.
The 180 is actually a rock solid platform and the basis for probably more service rifles than anything but a kalashnikov. Brownells seemed to figure out the 180 first try.
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u/jeffQC1 Apr 02 '24
In my honest opinion, it's because they don't seem to do any actual testing. If they took some of the WK-180C from the initial production/protorype run and tried them out over a 1000 rounds endurance test (at minimum), they would have seen all the part breakages issues and other issues with it. They obviously didn't do these things or willfully ignored them.
I often feel like they just design it, make it, test a single 5 round magazine through it and go "Yup, looks good to me. Fire up the factory, Jerry!"
I'm a QA guy (in video games, but same spirit), and 95% of problems can be solved by simply trying out the damn thing, doing some testing, doing some tweaks, etc... But you need to have the proper headspace for it, not being biased and not being afraid of being critical of your own products. And clearly some people can't do that.
If they would actually do so, i bet the WK-180C could easily have dominated the Canadian NR AR-ish market. Instead we got a shit rifle with poor durability and kind of obvious, eye-opening flaws so the reputation went to absolute shit. The Gen 2 are okay now, but they still need some aftermarket parts, like the adjustable gas valve first and foremost.
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u/scud-running Apr 02 '24
Man I agree. It does seem like they don’t even attempt to test these things.
Even with the Gen 2 it’s pretty unacceptable to sell a product that immediately needs an aftermarket part in order to reliably function.
The Lockhart raven with the Gen 1 bolt carrier issues was the same thing. They could’ve figured that out immediately with some testing. Also that’s like materials science 101. Squared holes concentrate stress and creature fractures in metal. We’ve known this since like the 50’s or earlier. At least he immediately fixed it though.
I think the sad reality is guns in general don’t tend to attract the best talent and even more so in Canada. Glock and Accuracy International come to mind as two times outsiders to the gun world came in and completely revolutionized the industry. I think we need more engineers from other industries in the gun space. Governments have done a great job around the world of killing innovation through bullshit laws and turning people off participating in the firearms industry though. We need more Samuel Colts, John Moses Brownings and Eugene Stoners. We’re still mostly using their designs instead of coming up with anything new.
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u/Daedalus-N7 Apr 01 '24
If I were you I'd be looking to return the rifle for a complete refund. That's fucking ridiculous
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u/ParalyzedNeckUp Apr 01 '24
I’m reaching out to the dealer ASAP to see if they’ll consider refunding me, then they can have it out with CA. I will keep everyone posted on my progress with this
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Apr 01 '24
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u/ParalyzedNeckUp Apr 01 '24
They’re probably backlogged with every other crux in the country at this point. I’m going to see if the dealer can help with anything but I doubt it
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u/pte_shit_bag Apr 01 '24
Another example of Canadian craftsmanship lol, it’s not even a meme anymore is honestly embarrassing how we can take old ideas and make them function worse lol, every single company’s making these at 180s needs either half the price to sub 1000 dollars making these permanent project guns (and that’s being generous) even remotely worth it, or just scrap it we don’t need another 7 generations to get the bcl 102 working situation, I feel really bad for people who deck these out as it is truely polishing a turd and just throwing money at a dumpster fire
Rip former and future Canadian 180 variant owners lol 🫡
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u/FluffyPlays22 Apr 01 '24
Yup, all canadian ar180s besides the R18 are shit.
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u/pte_shit_bag Apr 01 '24
Including the r18, marginally more reliable at best, they still pile up all the time
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u/LowBudgetSalt Apr 01 '24
If any one is having issues contacting crusader arms to return their rifle for warranty, it's better to contact through to spectre. I had the exact same issue as OP.
First 60 rounds and the extractor extracted itself, sent the rifle in they ONLY replaced the extractor and shipped it back to me in less than two weeks. I then proceeded to take it to the range the day after I got it back to blow out the extractor again. This time they took two months and replaced the whole bolt carrier group. I just got it back this week, but I'm not home to try it out again.
Looking back at my issues and what they replaced, I would definitely say it's a headspace issue. Hopefully they start hammering out replacements for people and that solves this problem. I would love to make it through a range trip without a bunch of cussing lol
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u/ParalyzedNeckUp Apr 01 '24
I’m preparing for the non stop shipping fights and warranty nonsense. Like you said I’m convinced it’s a headspace issue, I’ve never seen this much brass in my gun before. Even way back by the return springs there is brass sprayed all over the upper. There’s no way they tested these rifles before selling them
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u/LowBudgetSalt Apr 01 '24
They were actually very good for dealing with this whole issue. I had quick replies and answers the whole time, they sent me a return label the day I emailed and was able to ship it out the same day. Just be polite and they are very good to deal with in my experience.
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u/ParalyzedNeckUp Apr 01 '24
I’m always very patient and respectful with customer service reps, I’ve worked customer service before and I feel bad for anyone who still does
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u/Teckiiiz Apr 01 '24
I paid $3954 for this rifle. Basically $4000. So I’m obviously not thrilled that it feels so cheap and that it broke after literally 21 shots. I will be attempting to reach out to crusader for a new/better extractor. I am attempting to manage my expectations and frustrations.
Fuck that demand a refund in full. These people need to learn
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u/Repulsive-Cucumber16 Apr 01 '24
This company is absolute dog shit. Wouldn’t ever give them my money
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u/LowBudgetSalt Apr 01 '24
I had the same issue, they replaced my bolt carrier group and I haven't been home to try it out since. I hope they manage to find a solution to this whole extractor thing.
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u/ParalyzedNeckUp Apr 01 '24
I’m currently attempting to see if the dealer will refund me all together and if they do (probably not) I will be getting a 308 from IWI
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u/PrizedTrash Apr 01 '24
I thank the canadian 180 gods whenever I am reminded my gen 1 WK somehow wasn't a lemon. it must really hurt to spend 3x as much and still get something sub-par
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u/ParalyzedNeckUp Apr 01 '24
Yeah I kind of felt that the price range was going to mean they stepped up their game as far as quality, turns out the price just went up because it’s a bigger caliber I guess. I’ve never spend that much on something that was this fucked
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u/PrizedTrash Apr 01 '24
one would think that, I'd have thought so too, actually I did - assuming the thing was worth its price is how I got a WK
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u/dawsbonn Apr 02 '24
Yeah mines still doing that exact same thing your’s is doing. Send a email to theirs off the website, they’ll get back ya in a day usually.
Mines back for the 5th time so ya buy another 308 to keep ya busy cause you’re in it for the long haul lol.
(Fyi they use their own bolts but ar10 barrel’s supposedly so my guess is bad bolts and over gassed to hell.)
and i have a sentinel as well and have well over a 1000 rounds through it and never cleaned or lubed it once. I will say they make pretty decent 556 rifles for the most part but they are for sure struggling with the 308’s
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u/That-Coconut-8726 Apr 02 '24
I had a Templar gen 2 and it was hot garbage.
CA is an awful company. Would not give them another penny.
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u/nbdeh Apr 02 '24
brother in Christ, what would convince you to put a 308 sized pipe bomb next to your face when you know the garbage these people make in 223?
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u/MacPapRonin Apr 01 '24 edited Apr 01 '24
That's very frustrating.
I'm not going to try to defend Crusader Arms' QA/QC practices. They speak for themselves.
The M-Lok bipod came with the rifle, it sounds like?
The only thing I can help with here is maybe the problem with the upper and the lower being too tight together.
In the original post here: https://www.reddit.com/r/canadaguns/comments/10yxu41/crusader_arms_templar_crusader_9_maintenance_tips/
If you remove the screws completely (the two on either side of the rifle near the rear take down pin), then apply some blue loctite, then reassemble the upper and lower and tighten until it's mostly tight but not completely immovable, then back off a tiny bit. You can read the link above for a slightly more detailed description.
Very crappy. As someone who is happy with their Crusader Arms product as you were - so far - it's disappointing to hear of a different product in a parallel product line that's clearly not up to snuff. Disappointing, but at this point, sadly, not surprising.
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u/ParalyzedNeckUp Apr 01 '24
The bipod comes attached to the rifle, it doesn’t really bug me too much if I have to pull out an Allan key and tighten the thing back down every so often. If I wasn’t trying to currently return the rifle I’d probably give this a shot. I’ve had a bunch of issues with the rear takedown pin too. Like you said they’re probably too tight together. I just don’t get why after it was assembled someone didn’t inspect it and say “yeah this isn’t supposed to be this difficult.”
I would have to do this stupid thing where I would put the muzzle between my feet, and hold down the buttplate with an Allan key or screwdriver or whatever while punching the stock down to get them to separate. I honestly thought I was doing something wrong, like they changed the crux disassembly from the Templar but they never gave me a manual with the gun and they only had templar manuals online. I’ve taken down the Templar tons of times and it’s a breeze. The crux not so much. Not to mention the BCG locks forward and I have to dismantle the gun to fix it.
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u/MacPapRonin Apr 01 '24
Sounds like a PITA. Sorry you had this experience - hope you get the response you want from Crusader Arms.
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u/Expensive-Group5067 Apr 01 '24
I’m assuming this is a gen 2 we are talking about?
I have the gen 1 and experienced some feeding issues early on. My takeaway was not to use any mags but the mlock. All the other ones seem to over insert and push on the bolt carrier. Dismantling was a bit of a struggle but I figured it needs to break in a bit. I lubricated everything real well. I’m probably only 150 rounds down range so far, so not a lot of history I realize. I was fortunate though and only paid $1400 for a brand new never fired gen 1. I rolled the dice.
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u/Jaded_Economics7949 Apr 01 '24
He's talking about the 308 version
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u/Expensive-Group5067 Apr 01 '24
Didn’t catch that. Mines 556
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u/Jaded_Economics7949 Apr 01 '24
Yea, yours is the templar, and the 308 one is called the crux
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u/ParalyzedNeckUp Apr 01 '24
I can tell you’re taking about the Templar but I can discuss that too as I have a gen 2. I find that the PMAGs would work best in the Templar. I didn’t have a whole lot of feeding issues and I’m near 1000 rounds with it now. I did find that the PMAGs were the only ones it would consistently lock back on empty for. I have an entire post about it somewhere in my post history. I’d say the Templar is a 7/10 would buy again, as far as Canadian rifles go.
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u/Expensive-Group5067 Apr 01 '24
Yeah I’m talking the Templar. I missed that your discussing the crux(my bad) I’ll have to try the pmags again maybe. Crossmags seem to do the trick for me though. Glad to hear your getting up there with a round count and still relatively satisfied. Hope I can report the same after more rounds down range.
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u/ParalyzedNeckUp Apr 01 '24
I’ve only been using M855 since I bought it. I got a pack of 1000, and it looks like I have 150 left to go. I plan on making another update around 1500-2000 rounds but so far so good
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u/FireRisinWith1n Apr 01 '24
$4000? Wtf
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u/ParalyzedNeckUp Apr 01 '24
Well when I bought it they were advertising it for $3400 and after tax and shipping you’re looking at $3900 and change
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u/NuffinSaid Apr 01 '24
Wait, 4000$? You should have come on here and asked what's the best way to spend 4000$ on a rifle and would have been steered in a much better direction
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u/PrizedTrash Apr 01 '24
if he had 4k to burn he could literally buy a collector-grade garand and bubba it, it'd still be better than our modern hunks of scrap metal
Canadium might be even lower-grade than chinesium
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u/scud-running Apr 02 '24
Not even might be, a type 81 runs circles around any of our Canadian garbage.
Let’s get these laws changed so we can all buy Colt Canadas and run them as non restricted rifles the way God intended. Those are the GOOD Canadian made rifles and would put all these other companies out of business.
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u/ParalyzedNeckUp Apr 01 '24
I knew it wasn’t a good idea, I knew there was better shit to buy. Sometimes I get paid at work, go home, have a few drinks, and buy shit I shouldn’t. It’s a real problem compulsively buying guns I know I shouldn’t go anywhere near
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u/Dylan4570 Apr 01 '24
I made a post months ago asking for even a video of one of these working. They are shit guns, and the owner is probably getting ready to jump ship to another company name soon, again.... particularly, the 308 ones are a joke, it seems.
I get that it's disposointing because they seem like nice guns on paper. But you just have to steer clear of this trash.
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u/ParalyzedNeckUp Apr 01 '24
Yeah on paper they’re a great idea but I should have known better than to be a pioneer for Canadian firearms companies. CA just couldn’t pull it off I guess.
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u/vyrago Apr 01 '24
Good luck getting any response from Crusader. There have been multiple threads about them going radio silent on many customers.
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u/Sad_Coffee_3351 Apr 02 '24
I guess the Maverick was a good pick . But dam that is pathetic and sad! We for sure are getting shafted by both the company’s and the gov :( sad times
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u/ParalyzedNeckUp Apr 03 '24
So a refund for the rifle is not possible. I’ve explained to them what I’ve witnessed, and I will be shipping it back with the brass that is either bulged or cracked so they can inspect it first hand. Ultimately they’ll try to figure out what is causing issues with the cases and the extractor, and replace however many parts they have to or replace the rifle outright. At least the warranty is for life so I can keep sending it back if I keep having issues.
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u/LowBudgetSalt Jun 21 '24
Did you ever get a functioning rifle? I have sent mine back 3 times now. No luck on my end
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u/MoosedMilk Apr 01 '24
Its starting to get well known that the majority of these rifles are unsafe to shoot.