r/canadaguns • u/AutoModerator • Jun 13 '22

Weekly Politics Thread

Please post all your Politics or Ban-related ideas, initiatives, comments, suggestions, news articles, and recommendations in this thread. Unless new information is published in the media, recurring articles related to the gov'ts ***possible*** legislation are to be posted here. These threads will be weekly, until it's necessary for another per-week.

Previous politics threads can be found here. Previous threads can be found here.

We understand that politics is a touchy subject, and at times things can get heated. A reminder of the subreddit rules, when commenting, where subreddit users are expected to abide.

34 Upvotes

93% Upvoted

527 comments sorted by

View all comments

28

u/floydsmoot Jun 13 '22

Yes, I fully believe that the government will protect me /s

Guns Must Not Be Used For Self-Defense, Canada’s Trudeau Insists:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/guns-must-not-be-used-for-self-defense-canadas-trudeau-insists

33

u/last_to_know Jun 13 '22

“Guns are never for self-defence” says man surrounded by guns for self-defence.

15

u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Jun 13 '22

“We have a culture where the difference is: Guns can be used for hunting or for sport shooting in Canada – and there are lots of gun owners, and they’re mostly law-respecting and law-abiding – but you can’t use a gun for self-protection in Canada,” Trudeau said. “That’s not a right that you have in the Constitution or anywhere else.”

You don't have a specific right to use a gun in self defence. You do have a right to self defence, that includes using a firearm. A firearm is treated no differently than any other use of deadly force in self defence.

I genuinely don't think anyone in the LPC has the capacity to tell the truth about firearms.

9

u/floydsmoot Jun 13 '22

A firearm is treated no differently

I'd like to believe that, but I'll bet they will go after you more if you use a firearm than a baseball bat to make an example like Ian Thompson.

8

u/Batsinvic888 Bats888 on YouTube Jun 13 '22

The rest of that quote is important, "any other deadly force". It would be treated differently than something that doesn't have a likelihood to kill. For example, stabbing someone would also probably be considered deadly force while hitting someone with a baseball bat wouldn't.

It's all too complicated and bullshit though. I wish we had a castle doctrine.

3

u/MaybePenisTomorrow Jun 14 '22

Deadly force is anything a lawyer or judge can say will kill you. It’s like how firearms laws in Canada give pretty clear requirements on what a gun locker is, but if it’s not “reasonably safe” as well you can still get your ass dragged in court if you somehow get dragged up on firearms charges for literally any reason (including reporting firearms that someone may have stole from you) because “reasonable” is a subjective word up to the interpretation of the judge.

22

u/LananasCourageux Jun 13 '22

Says man continuously protected by the RCMP, JTF2, and the Men in Black.

8

u/floydsmoot Jun 13 '22

There's very few things that bug me more about Canada and that's the inability to legally defend myself and my family.

I know that the law says I'm allowed to defend myself with proportionate force, but it doesn't tell me HOW I'm supposed to defend myself. I'm old and have a bad knee, so what am I supposed to do when someone comes at me swinging a machete? (except bleed out). I certainly can't carry a gun or legally carry a knife or even pepper spray for self defence purposes?

6

u/[deleted] Jun 15 '22

You can carry a knife as long as you don’t state it was being carried for the purpose of self defence. Say you have to defend yourself with it. You tell the cops that you keep it on you for opening boxes at work or whatever. Refer to it as a tool you use and not a weapon.

Same goes for mace. You can legally carry it as defence for dogs. And you can legally defend yourself with that mace but you have to tell the cops it was on your person because you’re afraid the neighbours pit bull will jump the fence.

Ridiculous and the fact that I will have to coach my daughter on what to tell the cops if she ever has to defend herself makes me incredibly furious with this country.

1

u/floydsmoot Jun 15 '22

Yes, I said LEGALLY. If you have a screwdriver in your pocket and a cop asks you what's it for and you answer "self defence" he can arrest you.

7

u/Yamaganto_Iori Jun 13 '22

Think this needs to be brought up and hammered home everytime he makes this bullshit statement, Justin Trudeau is defended by the very guns he says can't be used for defense. It won't sway people from his side but it might make some fence sitters realize that Trudeau is a huge hypocrite.

19

u/Super-Ad5958 Jun 13 '22

Fuck Trudeau

16

u/throwa37 Jun 13 '22

Whatever, he can kiss my ass. He knows damn well that you can defend yourself if you need to, but he's basically saying you can't carry a handgun. He's just choosing to word it this way to maximally appeal to his shitty antigun base.

12

u/Current-Ad7988 Jun 13 '22

Holy fuck this is brutal stating something us gun owners are well aware of and strengthening gun control for the wrong people. His choice of language is so infuriating it makes me sick. How does anyone who may have not had a particular stance on guns not see right through this and instead gobble it up. Like does this guy even have any friends that arent using him for something.

12

u/yummybunnybear Jun 13 '22

I'm not a Marxist by any means, but the current laws banning the defensive use of firearms by anyone other than the rich and powerful with police protection and hired guards only serves to preserve the current power structure and is morally wrong and unfair. If the police and the guards of the rich and powerful can be trusted with guns, then why can't anyone else who goes through the same training? Why isn't there a program to allow everyone to go through the same training and certification?

15

u/[deleted] Jun 13 '22

Do you really have to ask or is the answer right in front of us?

The government doesn't want the average Canadian being armed to protect themselves.

6

u/floydsmoot Jun 13 '22

average Canadian being armed to protect themselves.

That's THEIR job and if we have to sacrifice some people for the better good--well, that's the Liberal way!

15

u/[deleted] Jun 13 '22 edited Jun 13 '22

This is exactly why this sports angle hasn't been working. Before the self defence and property rights argument has hit the mainstream, the opposition is pre emptively moving to an argument to shut us down and establish ground.

The world view of "gun owners must play the toothless, sports optics angle to win!! :DD" is obsolete. Stop hanging onto the idea that the public cares about frivolous hobbies. Being a doormat doesn't work, being "nice" doesn't work. It's starting to look like that the people who hang onto this opinion are afraid of being shut down or are afraid of going against the mainstream. Are people afraid of disobedience? What's with this community?

E: and I should add that the sports angle seems to be a defensive tactic to shield the community from criticism. Instead of doing that, how about going on the offensive and trying to show the public why self defence and defence of property is so important. There are numerous examples already of rural home owners defending themselves from thieves and intruders.

1

u/Fried_wired Jun 15 '22

How are you going to sell that to the folks living in a downtown core who barely leave their 5 block bubbles. These are the folks you need to appeal to as they are the ones who get polled and make up a large portion of indifferent voters (usually liberal because it's easy). How do you sell self defense to them when it never crosses their minds.

I am all for trying to change the perception of things and educating people because the majority of Canadians know nothing about our firearms/self-defense laws but it often falls on deaf ears.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '22

Just more education and outreach. I know those are catch-all terms but other than pointing out the lack of logic between

  1. no one should own guns but the police and military

and

  1. the police and military are systemically racist and corrupt,

there's not much else you could do.

I have bones to pick with organizations like the CCFR and NFA because they've been doing fuck all for the past 10 years. They could have been going to suburbs and sponsoring range days, which are the best way to get people into this community. Instead it's been years of silence and only now are they trying to win over the public. Most of the work has been left to us.