Weekly Politics Thread

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[u/[deleted]]

Our favorite firearms organizations aren't serving us well.

They have been happily taking everyone's money to "fight the OIC", etc. and spitting back messaging that makes their supporters happy, and not moving the needle at all.

Here's the thing: Our sport exists at the pleasure of the electorate. Firearms will never be a 'right'. No government will ever implement that. We borrow a lot of tone from our friends to the south, but it's really the worst thing to do, given that they have the 2A.

If we really want to expand the tent, we need to develop a Canadian-style message to reach the people that matter in Canada.

Because of Canada's situation, members of firearms advocacy groups don't matter much. Messaging that appeals to them, but falls flat with everyone else, achieves nothing.

Who DOES matter? The average urbanite in Toronto, Vancouver, Ottawa, Calgary, Montreal.

We need to shift our messaging to appeal to these folks. Primarily, we need to communicate that they will see friendly/familiar faces at the range on a Saturday afternoon. That the range is for them. The firearms community, in short, needs to be adopted by urbanites.

It will feel a bit like that underground band you always liked, that now has all these new fans who you don't think understand or care about the history. It will push away some people. It will change in unexpected ways. But that's the only path forward.

How do we achieve this? We need to:

-Get off our high horse. We're not 'smart' and opponents to our interests aren't 'stupid'. We all have emotions and bias.

-Media train ourselves. Understand that it's not a 'facts game'...it's a 'perception game'.

-The messaging and tone of our firearms advocacy organizations are are way off the mark. We need to demand more from them...or create a new organization.

-Adopt and reflect the views and language of urban Canada. They're the future.

-Forget talking about a 2A style implementation in Canadian law. It's a waste of resources and will push us further away from the other goals stated here.

-Clearly and openly denounce those who violate firearms laws or threaten violence with firearms. This has to be the topline priority, in bold. Canadians are awash in news of American mass shootings and we need to be in front of those stories...not pretending they don't exist. We need to strongly and overtly differentiate ourselves from the US so that laypeople understand that Canada is a very different place than the US. Casual browsers of all our media need to get an open and inviting tone from our communication.

-Shift the outward-facing narrative from lecturing, adversarial tone to inclusivity and invitation. We don't need to "educate" people....we need to welcome them.

I wish I could half bold, don't mean to yell. But wanted to highlight the key takeaways.

[u/throwa37 → u/[deleted]]

What you're saying, whether you intend to or not, is that we should accept that gun ownership in this country is going to be restricted to "hunting appropriate" long guns.

I hate to be the bearer of shit news here, but you will never convince the average urbanite that handguns and AR-15s should be available for, essentially, shits and giggles. It's a total non-starter. The overwhelming majority of them are against handgun ownership - hell, even most gun owners are for the assault weapons ban.

The reason that people are doing the whole 2A thing is that unless we make inroads in establishing the importance of gun ownership beyond frivolous sports, gun ownership as we knew it in this country is over, period. The idea of tailoring a "Canadian message" that's accepted by the urban population, where modern military rifles are toys, is a fantasy.

I'm not saying it'll be easy, but we either make this about rights, or we get used to owning nothing but bolt actions. This post is obviously well intentioned, but it's completely off the mark.

[u/[deleted] → u/throwa37]

The sport is going to change, there's no doubt. It's changing right in front of us. Singing from the old songbook isn't working. Your favorite firearms orgs aren't even working for you.

I hate to be the bearer of shit news here, but you will never convince the average urbanite that handguns and AR-15s should be available for, essentially, shits and giggles.

Then how do you see it ever being possible? Even under a CPC government, which is far from certain of happening anytime soon, the prohibs aren't coming back.

So...in my opinion, what we should be doing is making firearm ownership among qualified and vetted people acceptable and reasonable across a broad spectrum of Canadians.

Those who believe differently should keep financially supporting a 2A style firearms org. It's their money.

But there needs to be another organization that is speaking to urban Canada. Get them in the fold, and give our sport the political power it needs from across the political spectrum...before it's gone.

[u/throwa37 → u/[deleted]]

Singing from the old songbook isn't working.

You're not kidding it isn't. The sports narrative has been the only one that we've been pushing since at least the 1990's, and all it's gotten us is a federal ban on handgun sales and a black rifle ban.

In my opinion, what we should be doing is making firearm ownership among qualified and vetted people acceptable and reasonable.

Generally speaking, it already is, even in the cities - again, so long as you're ok with being restricted to owning hunting rifles. If you want urbanites to recognize semi-auto and handgun ownership as acceptable and reasonable, then you need to give them a better reason to possess deadly weapons than sports. You just have to. If you seriously think you're going to make any progress on the basis of "I like to shoot these for fun", then I'm at a loss as to what to tell you.

EDIT:

Then how do you see it ever being possible?

By persuading people that firearms are actually valuable tools of self-defence, and recognizing that in the law.

Think that sounds hard? I guarantee you it's easier than convincing Torontonians that you should be allowed to have them for fun.

[u/Kombatnt → u/throwa37]

By persuading people that firearms are actually valuable tools of self-defence

Dude, I like guns as much as anyone else here, but this is just never going to happen. Canadians are flooded daily with stories from across the border about the horrors of a nation where everyone is armed to the teeth. There is absolutely no appetite for that kind of culture up here. This is a non-starter.