Details of 9mm guns coming to Canadian Markets

[u/Sad-Stop-2401]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzgVPWvRSTI

Semi Auto (R9C coming in Nov-Dec)

• RCMP accepts that R9 is not a variant of AR-15 (DUH!)
• BUT because SRI shipped R9 recievers to US for use in machine pistols, RCMP thinks it is ... a pistol... Go figure! LOL!
• New variant of original R9 called R9C is coming in Nov-Dec, which is incompatible with whatever they ship in US. It will get new FRT.
• People having R9 Prohib will be able to ship their gun to SRI (cost borne by owners) to convert to new R9C which will be NR.

Lever Action

• New lever action coming in the same time frame in 9mm
• Will have barrel of 10inch and 14inch
• Glock Mag
• Will allow customization
• Price should be less than 1500 CDN (Ouch!)
• Later they will add 10 mm and 45ACP, already shipping in USA
• They want to add a proprietary mag later. Becuase I guess Glock ones will be restricted to 10. So we may get a level action with detachable mag having more than 10 capacity.

[u/Clover_Lawn_4440]

Cox is the reason the Swiss Arms rifles got banned years before the present mess

[u/Fancybear1993 → u/Clover_Lawn_4440]

How did he get Swiss Arms rifles banned?

[u/Sad-Stop-2401 → u/Fancybear1993]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/swiss-arms-classic-green-rifle-ban-to-be-reviewed-by-government-1.2555746

[u/Fancybear1993 → u/Sad-Stop-2401]

Just read the article, I’m not sure what he has to do with it.

I’m not trying to go hard to bat for him or anything haha, I just have little context.

[u/Sad-Stop-2401 → u/Fancybear1993]

From what I gather, it is like this:

He reported to police an abnormality in guns he recieved for sale ie they had parts common with FA firearms. RCMP following its agenda of banning as many firearms as possible banned it claiming ALL those Swiss Arm guns are easily convertible to FA.

I mean, he did reporting in good faith. He just became immediate cause.

RCMP is just more trigger happy (pun intended) with banning.

[u/EinGuy → u/Sad-Stop-2401]

JR Cox did NOT report it in good faith; Both he (JR Cox, fmr. The Shooting Edge) and Markus & John at Calgary Shooting Centre were importing rifles from Swiss Arms. JR thought that the rifles imported by CSC were from forges NOT for the non-restricted PE90, but instead SiG550 (Full-Auto rifles, thus prohibited) receivers!

Ah ha! JR can get the rifles from his competitors banned, while he can remain the sole source of Swiss Arms rifles in Canada! But it backfired in spectacular fashion.

Turns out, HIS / TSE rifles were made from SiG550 forged receivers, and CSC were actually importing PE90's!

The RCMP, realizing they now have an appropriate hole to loop, ban both due to the two rifles now being functionally interchangeable in their eyes.

JR Cox fucked us.

[u/Acceptable_Visit_115 → u/EinGuy]

CSC initially declared the PE90s as non-restricted 540s and not 550s. So yes, once the RCMP got their hands on real 550s and realized that they are interchangeable with the PE90s, the PE90s got banned as 550 variants.

Thanks, JR Cox.

[u/Sad-Stop-2401 → u/EinGuy]

Damn! The guy is evil!

[u/Fancybear1993 → u/Sad-Stop-2401]

Damn too bad. It’s unfortunate that we can’t operate in good faith

[u/Sad-Stop-2401 → u/Fancybear1993]

I believe.... he had other reasons too. See, if a firearm is used in a crime, police will investigate everyone in the chain. Especially if they find evidence of tempering or something that makes it FA.

Cox... likely was covering his posterior.

Canada has some really interesting way to police. Beaurocrats and public servants have practical immunity from judicial review in some decisions they make and it has chilling effects on Canadians in general.

At least in firearm community this effect is most pronounced.

[u/Acceptable_Visit_115 → u/Sad-Stop-2401]

Actually, it's because the SIG 550 being 1992 OIC prohibs.

When the PE90 was first imported into Canada, the importers claimed that they are SIG 540 variants, which is not prohibited. The RCMP let it slide and didn't care.

Once JR Cox reported it, the RCMP took a closer look and realised that all Swiss Arms are SIG 550 variants, therefore are covered by the 1992 OIC.

But it's far easier to just blame the RCMP and not put the blame on JR's business practice. People still defend him believe it or not.

[u/Sad-Stop-2401 → u/Acceptable_Visit_115]

Okay, so lower receiver was a FA anyways. And RCMP did not know better initially and later his evidence help them determine it and then banned all the Swiss Arms guns.

[u/Acceptable_Visit_115 → u/Sad-Stop-2401]

Yup, thats the gist of it. Like another comment here pointed it out, the PE90s were "living on borrowed time" the moment it got into Canada as NR. Many people saw it coming, they just need an evidence and an excuse.

[u/marston82 → u/Fancybear1993]

He snitched to the RCMP.

[u/Severe_Frolic8375 → u/Fancybear1993]

They were technically illegal from the start (converted from full auto) and when he had one come into his shop he reported it after making that discovery. I know we all wish he would've been chill about it, but I can hardly blame him for triggering something that would've happened eventually anyway. The importer has to take some blame, clearly they showed the RCMP one model for approval and imported/sold something illegal instead.

[u/chillyrabbit → u/Clover_Lawn_4440]

I've posted about it before, but the Swiss Arms rifles were living on borrowed time.

Unfortunately the TV press pass site is closed now so you can't easily find the ATIP but I do summarize the most relevant parts, and you can find the ATIP yourself.

But basically it was always going to be a question of when not if the swiss arms got banned. If the RCMP could swap the supposedly SG540 based rifle uppers and lowers (Swiss arms) with a SG 550, and not with a reference FAMAE SG 540. You probably have a problem that makes the RCMP think the Swiss arms rifles are SG 550 variants and not variants of the SG 540.

[u/Acceptable_Visit_115 → u/chillyrabbit]

Correct. The RCMP later let NR SG540s in the country as well, so of all the people to blame here, the RCMP would be the last ones I'd point fingers at.

The only error the RCMP made was to not ban the PE90 in the first place, as they were 550 variants and not 540. 

The importers of the PE90 falsely claimed that they are 540-based, and the RCMP took their words at face value without further investigation.

Like you said, anyone with sufficient firearm knowledge knows the PE90s are 550-based and were living on borrowed time. The moment somebody mail the RCMP an actual 550 to put side by side with the PE90, it'll get banned as the 550 variant.

JR Cox was that "somebody".

After this debacle, approving new black rifles with the RCMP became extremely difficult and time-consuming. I wonder why.

[u/KingofHounslow → u/Clover_Lawn_4440]

He messed up, yes. Like him or not though his work with Sterling Arms is going to hopefully allow us to have a quality PCC from a quality manufacturer that stands by their product and has excellent customer service. Who deserves your dollars instead? The Turks? Crusader arms? lol

Not saying he’s perfect…. But he’s trying

[u/Q-Ball7 → u/KingofHounslow]

Not saying he’s perfect…. But he’s trying

The lever-action design he has is probably the largest innovation in the space since the 1873.

I can accept that as "repentance".

[u/Sad-Stop-2401 → u/Clover_Lawn_4440]

So he reported some used uppers of Swiss Arms guns that came into his shop and bloody RCMP classified ENTIRE Swiss Arms guns as prohibited? WTF!!!!

And Harper government for some reason did not fire all these stupid beaurocrats for this?

Or changed the law itself to remove such classification?

[u/Acceptable_Visit_115 → u/Sad-Stop-2401]

  RCMP classified ENTIRE Swiss Arms guns as prohibited? WTF!!!!

Because Swiss Arms PE90 are SIG 550s, prohibited under the 1992 OIC.

The original importers of PE90s argued that they were SIG 540s which were not name-banned. At the time it was hard to source 540/550s so the RCMP didn't know better and let them in.

JR Cox's claim of full auto 550s gave the RCMP enough physical evidence that the PE90 was, in fact, a 550, and should have been prohibited in the first place.

[u/Reasonable_Hall2346]

Lets hope the RCMP do actually give the RC9/R9C an NR-FRT.

Looking promising and I do hope it can all be resolved by the Nov-Dec time frame. Would also hope they prioritize current R9 owners who did not declare and turn in theirs (allegedly some did).

[u/Fast-Prize]

RCMP admit they fucked up the classification? Cool. So undo it. It’s a keystroke. You do it all the time. Let R9 owners play with their toys again.

Also, if the RCMP admit they fucked up, does that not call into question the ENTIRE STUPID FRT????

[u/TescoValueSoup → u/Fast-Prize]

that would be too easy, or, JR Cox isnt telling things accurately.

[u/Acceptable_Visit_115 → u/TescoValueSoup]

Correct. JR omitted some details so that the public would shift the blame squarely onto the RCMP. Notably:

• He tried to be as secretive as possible about the R9's Turkish origins, Akdas SA-9

• He tried to be lazy and market the R9 as a baby R18 (AR-180B variant) to speed up RCMP approval, as the R18 was NR at the time.

• When the untimely AR-180B ban happened, he jumped out and cried about the RCMP banning it as something completely unrelated - even if he claimed that it's a R18 (therefore AR-180B) variant himself.

• The SA-9 and its US market version, MAC IX, are often sold as stockless "pistols". JR Cox openly advertised about a "handgun" version of the R9 existing in parallel, in order to justify his 10 round MP5 mags. Unfortunately, if you introduce a pistol and rifle at the same point in time with interchangeable receivers, the RCMP will apply the "once a handgun always a handgun" clause and make both restricted handguns. This is a rookie mistake on JR's side.

[u/Fast-Prize → u/Acceptable_Visit_115]

Wow. Context is everything.

[u/Fast-Prize → u/TescoValueSoup]

Yeah, I’m thinking there’s some truth to this. RCMP admit they fucked up, yet they still need JR to produce a different firearm?

[u/julienjj → u/Fast-Prize]

Right ? Hit delete and start over 😂

[u/conanap → u/Fast-Prize]

they did talk about that, it was because the R9 is now classified as a pistol (which is so ridiculous lol) because they were sold in the US as a "braced pistol".

Stupid ass regulation, but it is what it is. At least we're getting what is essentially the same gun, slightly improved, for sale here now.

[u/MidwinterBlue]

Thanks OP for posting this. Very interesting. The RC9 has real potential.

[u/TescoValueSoup]

If the RC9 is a new center fire rifle, that means it is Bill C-21 compliant. ie, must have prop mags that only accept 5 rounds, or its prohibited.

How will RCMP approve it NR if it still takes the R9 (10rnd) mags...

[u/Sad-Stop-2401 → u/TescoValueSoup]

R9C is a variant of R9, which RCMP NOW considers not a variant of AR-15. So it was "Originally Designed" before 2023. Basically, RCMP has interpreted design date of RC9 as that of R9 while it now considers R9 a pistol.

How? This is another feature of stupid Canadian laws. Once a gun is handgun, it is forever handgun.

So

R9 (designed in 2021 or so) : a pistol reciever. ----------> RC9 : A Variant of R9, which was designed in 2021 and incompatible with pistol barrels etc. So it is a ... rifle that was "originally designed" in 2021 and manufactured in subsequent years.

It however opens a new avenue. Take an existing pistol design, make its carbine variant. LOL!

Anyhow, The R9C is a canada specific design and it will be shipped with 5 shots mag. So yeah there is that too. MP5 compatibility is just ... coincidental?

[u/IcySkyDream → u/Sad-Stop-2401]

Does this mean we can get 10 round pistol mags?

[u/Reasonable_Hall2346 → u/IcySkyDream]

Yes the same 10 round magazine for the SAI R9 pistol.

[u/IcySkyDream → u/Reasonable_Hall2346]

Hot damn I can finally have an MP5! Sort of…

[u/conanap → u/TescoValueSoup]

originally designed with a detachable magazine

So if a company designs a new semi 5 rounder with internal only today, a year later releases a variant with a detachable… it’s NR? (Assuming barrel length is sufficient)

[u/Acceptable_Visit_115 → u/TescoValueSoup]

My guess is, the RC9 only changed the receiver interface to be incompatible with the R9. Everything else is designed pre-C21, so it'd be NR.

[u/TescoValueSoup → u/Acceptable_Visit_115]

It's really messy the more you pick this apart..

R9 was designed pre C-21 ... but the new design changes they've now made to the new firearm, the RC9, and for it to be incompatible with the R9, are post C-21

So is it a new firearm, or is it an R9 variant?
It cant be the same firearm if the RCMP are allegedly saying they'll approve it, or it'll just be given Prohib classification

Surely meaning the RC9 has to be C-21 compliant?

R9 was Prohibited using PFR, Part 1, para. 99

99 The firearm of the design commonly known as the Armalite AR-180B rifle, and any variant or modified version of it, including [the list]

[u/Acceptable_Visit_115 → u/TescoValueSoup]

  R9 was Prohibited using PFR, Part 1, para. 99

Because JR Cox, in his infinite wisdom, decided to declare the R9 (a completely unique and distinct firearm that isn't a known variant) as a R18 Mk3 variant, itself homologated as an AR-180B variant (Para.99).

So the RCMP took the easy way out and took JR's marketing spiel at face value, chalked it up as an AR-180B.

Had JR actually used 10% of his brain power, he would have declared the R9 (I mean, Akdas SA-9) as a from-the-ground-up clean sheet design that isn't a variant of anything, and the RCMP would've approved it. In fact, this is why his appeal succeeded: once the RCMP discarded his marketing claim and looked at the firearm itself, they too arrived at the conclusion that the R9/SA-9 isn't based on any one particular firearm therefore it's not a variant of anything prohibited.

[u/Grouchy-Lemon2350]

I thought you shared a Pawn Stars episode

[u/Sad-Stop-2401 → u/Grouchy-Lemon2350]

LOL! Cox looks the part.

[u/yummybunnybear]

Mad respect to Canadian firearms manufacturers who have to bend over backwards to maneuver these retarded laws so they can sell their guns that are practically the same as their "prohib" or "pistol" counterparts except for a few machined contours on the receiver. What a waste of everyone's time and resources these laws are causing.

[u/Fresh-Efficiency-352]

Nope cant support anything that has any dealing with that motherfucker JR cocksucker what an absolute piece of shit human being straight scum of our community his range was a quite the show with some real weirdo wannabe cops that went under a fucked a bunch of people out of their money.

[u/567432Gains]

The proprietary magazine is what I’m helllllla interested in.

[u/Big-Guitar-1979]

Who owns the R9? Is it good?

[u/Reasonable_Hall2346 → u/Big-Guitar-1979]

Not sure many had a chance to shoot it long enough. Reviews at the time were OK. Keep in mind its Canadian assembled turkish gun.

[u/Sad-Stop-2401 → u/Reasonable_Hall2346]

Its a canadian made gun with material from Turkey. Like polymer.

[u/Reasonable_Hall2346 → u/Sad-Stop-2401]

No, the receiver is Turkish. The barrel is made in Canada, the rest is Turkish.

[u/mjbonne]

That lever is chunky and undesirable, but sounds super promising with the RC9

[u/Ustauk]

Here's a review of the Max IX Pistol,, which is the short barreled, rear charging version of the original R9. https://youtu.be/imLmeMhQJlE?si=nVpMOcOk58YXe3LI

Question, if the original R9 is now a pistol by classification, could someone with a RPAL register it to use at the range as-is? And if the lower is the registered component, could they import a Mac IX upper through iRunGuns for their R9 lower?

I know most people would rather the government not know they have a previously NR R9, but registering might be useful for those who can only go to  a range.

[u/Scott-YYC → u/Ustauk]

I think it's highly unlikely that the Liberals / RCMP would allow new handgun registrations considering their "freeze" on transfers.

[u/Ustauk → u/Scott-YYC]

Thanks, I figured that was the case, but I thought it was worth asking the question. So, the R9 is still effectively prohibited by not being registrable, unless the RC9 gets a non-restricted FRT entry, after which its guts can be transferred their new NR receivers.

[u/Ustauk → u/Ustauk]

Good video on the subject; the interviewer called the R9 as stuck in "handgun jail", that's a good way to put it: UNBANNED?! Sterling Arms R9 - Taccom 2026

[u/Sad-Stop-2401 → u/Ustauk]

Doubt it. Handgun Freeze.

[u/DougMacRay617]

Big gay

[u/Sad-Stop-2401 → u/DougMacRay617]

You like the Cuck 9mm gun, eh?

[u/Altruistic_Split9447]

So is the R9 now legal to use?

[u/AP587011B → u/Altruistic_Split9447]

No. All current R9s are still prohibited. 

The new version will have new upper and lower geometry so that neither will mate with the upper or lower of the previous version. 

Once the new version is out, you can ship your old prohibited one to Sterling and they will send you the new non restricted version. 

[u/Sad-Stop-2401 → u/Altruistic_Split9447]

R9C. Its a different reciever. R9 .... well cox says that RCMP considers it ... a pistol.... weird I know.

[u/Altruistic_Split9447 → u/Sad-Stop-2401]

So if you have an RPAL are you good to go dispute it being a pistol?

[u/Sad-Stop-2401 → u/Altruistic_Split9447]

I doubt they will let you register R9 in your name.