r/canadaguns • u/WeakReply5118 • Jul 31 '26
Buy recommendations Bear defence gun 44 mag mares leg vs Mossberg 590 shockwave
backcountry pack gun what’s a better option, I know there not the best choices but out of the two what do you guys recon will be a better choice for wilderness protection.
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u/Vintage_Pieces_10 Jul 31 '26
There’s a mare’s leg 45-70 now. I feel like that would fuck up a bear plenty in all of the pistol gripped variety of firearms
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u/Conscious_Bid_8762 Jul 31 '26
My mares Legg is useless unless your shooting from the hip? I would take my marlin trapper any day
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u/Whispersfine Jul 31 '26
Not as bad as a fucking slug shooter
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u/preferablyoutside Jul 31 '26
You don’t really understand ballistics do you?
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u/Whispersfine Jul 31 '26
I understand the dominance of kinetic energy
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u/preferablyoutside Jul 31 '26
If the claimed was true you’d have known there’s a difference between a rifle cartridge and a slug.
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u/NorthernArbiter Jul 31 '26
Northern BC guy here…
Shotgun and cheap challenger slugs from Canadian Tire is your answer.
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u/Flat-Dark-Earth Big Bore Specialist Jul 31 '26
45/70 or 12g slug. Big bore and slow velocity is ideal.
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u/hafetysazard Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26
Depends which one you think you’ll be able to shoot better. Energy-wise if you can track down some Brenneke Black Magic Magnums you’ll have almost twice the kinetic energy, but a hot, and heavy, hardcast .44 mag load will probably penetrate deeper. It is like asking is a 10lb railroad spike maul better than a 6lb pick axe if you’re swinging them the same speed?
In the worst case a big animal bearing down on you at close range, you’re going to get one aimed shot off, and a second point shot; a third if you’re lucky. So maybe adding a buttstock to make those precious shots worthwhile it isn’t a bad idea? Some of the reasons a handgun is often better than a long gun for wilderness protection is pointability, and one-handed operation at very close range. With either of your choices those benefits are diminished or lost entirely. Also, what might make those guns intimidating to a person, an animal will not care, or know the difference. For packability, a 12” Chiappa Ridge Runner .45-70 seems like the ticket if you have the budget for it. Plenty of spicy bear loads that would still perform well in that little barrel.
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u/gnu_gai Jul 31 '26
Handguns are also good for wilderness animal defense because you still have to haul the thing around the 99.99% of the time you're not using it in self defense
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u/hafetysazard Jul 31 '26
Exactly. Handguns are much lighter weight, and can be kept in ready to fire position safely tucked in a holster, and drawn in an instant, where it is most accessible at all times. I guess the two options OP is interested in can be kept in a holster too; which can be a meaningful improvement to speed and accessibility. I think it is up to the individual to decide if that is worth giving up a more steady shot and better recoil control. Personally I don’t see myself drawing down on a bear. I already torture myself by carrying my gun in my hands when in the bush anyways, so I would opt for something like the Ridge Runner if I was deciding on grabbing something strictly for bear protection. I carry around a 20” 1886 Takedown .45-70 rifle in the bush, so it would be an upgrade to me; weight-wise.
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u/NorthernArbiter Jul 31 '26
You aren’t allowed to take handguns anywhere other than the gun range.
Youve never been allowed to carry handguns in the wilderness.
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u/preferablyoutside Jul 31 '26
Tell your uncles wife’s boyfriends cousins brother, or whichever poor scholar you got that information from they’re wrong. You can get CFO exemptions.
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u/hectop20 Jul 31 '26
Although difficult, you can get a Wilderness Authority to Carry. I know one or two that have it because they do survey work.
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u/Trogar1 Jul 31 '26
Not entirely correct. Everyday Joe wouldn’t qualify, but a licensed trapper with an RPAL can, as well as remote wilderness workers with the same qualifications.
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u/chemdaddy1040 on Jul 31 '26
I’d lean towards a 12ga just because you can pack a few rounds of bird shot for any small game you bump.
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u/CryptidWorks CryptidWorks Aug 01 '26
Gotta check your regs re: minimum barrel length and maximum shell capacity if you're doing that. In BC it's 12" and two in the mag tube, one in the chamber, respectively. Needs to be plugged if it holds more.
They don't give a shit about capacity if it's full of slugs, though. KSG with 14+1 go brrrrr.
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u/old_rug Jul 31 '26
Im not exactly a expert on the subject, but I do know that slugs are standard for bear defense in many places. I would probably lean towards the Shockwave.
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u/hafetysazard Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26
Slugs are good, but if they’re too soft and pushed too fast, they’ll mushroom and slow down, when you want them to penetrate deep through thick fat, dense muscle, and break bones. They’ll work fine on broadside or quartering shots for hunting, but if a big animal is attacking, you’re going to be fighting them head on. For big animal defense, you should carry hard alloy slugs. Brenneke Black Magic Magnums, and Federal TruBall Deep Penetrators, should be top choices. It seems Challenger Magnum slugs are also very hard, and will likely work well, too.
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u/preferablyoutside Jul 31 '26
Whichever one you’re more proficient with, going off most of the inside kids on here shooting prowess or lack thereof I’d suggest bear spray. At least you won’t kill one of your friends.
Especially in black bear country spray is damn effective, it’s light, cheap and easy to deploy. For backcountry peace of mind it’s a lot easier to pack.
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u/Conscious_Bid_8762 Jul 31 '26
45/70 marlin trapper is my bear gun
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u/Glockinmytacklebox Jul 31 '26
I want one so bad but can’t find them anywhere :(
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u/Conscious_Bid_8762 Aug 01 '26
I found mine in a local gun shop in a tiny town after I bought the .357 just cause I wanted one lol … keep your eyes open you’ll find one
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u/numbdigits Aug 07 '26
I've wanted one for years, but the price on these lever guns has gotten out of hand, I just do not feel that they are a $2300+ dollar rifle. That said, if I ever do have a change of heart, the 1895 Trapper is the only 45/70 lever gun I'm interested in.
I remember buying a new 1895 GS for $800-900......sure miss that pricing.
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u/AlienAngry Jul 31 '26
Whatever you can shoot better. I would not pick either, but I guess the 590 is the less shit option if you can actually shoot it. It's gonna kick like absolute fucking hell with 3" slugs. Godspeed, you crazy bastard.
1
u/therowdyirishman Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26
When fractions of a second matter, either option requires the addition of a stock to be used effectively. Make no mistake about it, humping through the bush carrying a long gun in addition to all your other gear isn't going to be fun. HOWEVER, carrying a pistol grip only option tucked into your backpack makes it a fools errand rather than a worthwhile grind. The firearm needs to be readily accessible (slung at your side or front) and supported by the training time to deploy it very rapidly and accurately.
If budget is a factor I'd say the Shockwave. Ammo costs are much lower to train. There's more variety and lower priced stock and forend options that allow mounting of a 2 point sling and flashlight. If budget isn't a factor a compact lever gun in 45-70 is the most potent option. I know 44mag can get the job done but I feel better about a hardcast slug or dangerous game style rifle projecticle (45-70). I also prefer the pump action for its simplicity and ruggedness. Lever actions have much more complex machining. For whatever reason I find it more intuitive and harder to fumble running a pump vs a lever. Lastly, I feel (no first hand experience) a pump would stand up better in inclement weather. IE mortaring your 590 if the action locks up or froze shut vs trying to pry open a lever action.
1
u/zaphodbssecondhead Aug 03 '26
I guess shockwave but get those rear hand straps that are sold or put a Magpul stock on it.
5 slugs will take care of a bear. Plus you can always have a bear bangers on deck to try to scare them away jf the area is right for it.
1
u/PlanetGuardian-42 Jul 31 '26
Shockwave with a stock, 100%.
Can have the first rounds be rubber slugs or buckshot.
1
u/Trogar1 Jul 31 '26
I reckon, I would take the 12g with heavy buckshot, out of those options.
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u/EnvironmentalFox7532 Aug 01 '26
I wouldn’t personally. I use to alternate buck and slugs starting with buck. My logic was easier to hit a fast moving target and knock the bear back or slow it down to finish it with slugs. But chatting with my buddies dad an old cowboy and outfitter now retired told us countless stories where 00 and 000 buck shot had virtually effect on large black bears and grizzlies.
He said it was that even close range the penetration just isn’t there to hit vitals consistently in a large animal amped up on adrenaline. Think of it like a methhead or PCP user that can shrug off a tazer, OC/CS spray like it’s nothing whereas they often drop guys who are 6’6” 300lbs. Even a person in full defensive mode adrenaline pumping can do surprising things.
Slugs on the other hand, hard cast magnums especially just hit so hard they penetrate and dump massive amounts of energy on impact. Sure they aren’t fun to shoot, but they just work. Personally I run the federal truball 3” slugs out of a 12” barrelled pump. They aren’t too bad in it, and quick draw I can hit a 4” gong at anywhere between 5-25 yards consistently. My buddy and I do drills where we set gongs out at 5 yard increments. One of us shoots and the other picks a random start while just having a conversation on the firing line. Sometimes we will even shoot 25 to 5, and quick load a d shoot back through them back to 25. Reason for an no planned start in mid conversation is to have your mind elsewhere and not be focused just on target shooting. Make it random, could be a few words in, could be at 2,5,even 20 minutes. It’s a blast and semi simulates the randomness and attention else where, like working or hiking in the bush.
We have both had a lot of experience with bears in Alberta and northern BC through the last 25 years. Lots of charges and close to being mauled more than once. Luckily those times for the almost mauled were smaller black bears maybe 2-3 year olds. And we weren’t packing guns at the time. Literally beat them back with sticks. I’ve been in the bush myself almost 40 years, first bear encounter I had was when I was 10, and memorable ones when I was 15-16, 22-23, a lot in my 30s and a few in my 40s. Just aren’t in the field for work these days.
SO my advice is just use Slugs Man!!! They are tried and true. Or depending on the area and bears either 44mag bear loads, or 45-70. Still need to find one of each, just haven’t had luck finding exactly what I want. So for now it’s my shorty 12ga and Trueball slugs.
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u/NeruLight Jul 31 '26
I was thinking I’m not a fan of a half cock safety but i guess you would also only chamber a round if needed.
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Jul 31 '26 edited 24d ago
[deleted]
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u/Alpha_Whiskey327 Aug 04 '26
Hard for most as the 14.75" 990 aftershocks are going to be restricted by barrel length on semi action.
The 14" pump 590/A1 are still the play, in my mind and on my pack.
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u/AssignmentPutrid3197 Jul 31 '26
I would not want to rely on hitting multiple shots with a 44 mag against a brown bear.
12 gauge if you can handle it is immensely more powerful than a pistol cartridge.
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u/EnvironmentalFox7532 Aug 01 '26
100% good old hard lead slugs. Never tried the Breneke’s myself. Still want a 44mag myself but not for carry in grizzly country. It’ll be great up north though. Plus I just have a thing for lever action rifles 😉
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u/AssignmentPutrid3197 Aug 01 '26
They are beautiful guns. Highly recommend them for shooting.
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u/EnvironmentalFox7532 Aug 01 '26
Yeah I’m buying one before I buy a 30-30 eventually. Don’t need the 30-30 more of just a want as I have an access to a bunch of different rifles suitable for hunting. Getting myself a Rugger American 2 in 308 in a few weeks for moose hunting. It’s what I always used through the years, just never owned one myself.
Want the 44 as a brush gun/bear gun as I just love the classic feel of a good lever gun. Planning to buy the 44 in the spring with my tax return.
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u/Initial-Job9067 Jul 31 '26
I would go with the shockwave. 12g Ammo is cheaper and more accessible in my experience. Slugs may be less powerful but will leave a massive hole in anything.
Some shockwave clones also come out the box with interchangeable stocks for more versatile shooting.