r/canadaguns • u/TheGoldShipper • Jul 27 '26
Feets / Collection / My build B&T APC9 at home
Really wanted a APC9 or GHM9 but alas, prohib.
So I turned my 1970s 10/22 into the closest thing. 26inch OAL without comp.
Ruger 10/22 carbine receiver
SB22 Fixed Kit chassis
Ballistic Advantage 8” barrel
Tac Sol X Ring compensator
SBI super lite stock
TANDEMKROSS bolt release and skeletonized mag release
Butler Creek 25/22 mag pinned at 10 of course
Holosun ARO
Magpul VFG
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u/NIBLZ_HAMSTR Jul 27 '26
Looks scary... I peed a little bit.
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u/TheGoldShipper Jul 27 '26
I should have posted a side by side with it in the OG wooden stock for the libs- classic case of people getting scared by furniture lol
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u/NIBLZ_HAMSTR Jul 27 '26
I base all my opinions (and phobias) on mainstream media and the brave politicians who keep us so safe.... things that can dispense 1000 heat seeking rounds in half a second tend to reliably activate a nervous pee.
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u/NIBLZ_HAMSTR Jul 27 '26
To be honest...... id probably still dribble a bit...... these are weapons of war we're talking about here.
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u/Prior-Radio8346 Jul 27 '26
As the owner of a brand new unfired spc9.. This feels like a personal attack 🤣
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u/Miserable_Computer91 Jul 28 '26
I have a real ghm9 upstairs right now, it is honestly so sick I wish i could still shoot it
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u/FRED040513 Jul 27 '26
It does become restricted though, right?
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u/BrotherLefthand Jul 27 '26
Nope. Rimfire with a manufactured barrel installed. OAL stays above restricted class. All good. 👍
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u/FRED040513 Jul 27 '26
Oooh I want one now..
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u/BrotherLefthand Jul 27 '26
They're kind of fun. The novelty wears off quick.
.22lr becomes more fun when you get into precision rimfire competition.
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u/a-drunk-canadian al Jul 27 '26
Rimfire only needs to have a 26” oal to be NR. Little more to it than that, but long story short, she should be NR to my understanding
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u/TheGoldShipper Jul 29 '26
For anyone considering a similar NR build: Response from the CFP: “The Ruger 10/22 is with the 203mm (8 inch) barrel is classified as non-restricted. You are correct in the fact that if the stock remains fixed and not a folding stock, the firearm will remain non-restricted.”
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u/Sad-Stop-2401 Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
How is this not prohibited?
https://rcmp.ca/en/firearms/classes-firearms/classes-firearms-canada#s5
Firearms adapted from a rifle or shotgun, whether by sawing, cutting or any other alteration, and that, as so adapted are:
- 660 mm or greater in length and has a barrel less than 457 mm in length
- less than 660 mm in length
You changed barrel length to under 457 mm?
Butler Creek 25/22 mag pinned at 10 of course
Because same mag is designed for a handgun too? Otherwise it should be unlimited right?
PS : Intent of this comment is not to blame any person but to understand legal compliance here. If someone knows more on this topic, most humbly, I will like to be corrected. I am not a lawyer nor a firearm verifier. This is not a legal advice.
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u/goshathegreat Jul 27 '26
Because it was not adapted or altered by cutting or sawing. Since the 8” barrel was made as an 8” barrel, it wasn’t a 16” cut down to 8”, this makes it legal.
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u/Sad-Stop-2401 Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
Changing the barrel to a shorter one is adaptation, right? Law says adapted from a rifle or shotgun?
Take a look FRT : https://www.armalytics.ca/firearm/122075-ruger-10-22-rifle
215 mm barrel is marked as prohibited when done in Non commercial customization.
PS : I am an enthusiast but not professional or authority figure in this.
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u/TheGoldShipper Jul 27 '26
Take a look at this NFA article: https://nfa.ca/barrel-and-firearms-lengths/
“NOTE: The firearm is NOT forced into the “prohibited firearm” class if it left the factory with the barrel at below-18″/457mm barrel length. I have, for example, a .22 rimfire semi-auto 30-shot rifle with a 9-3/4″ barrel, a .410 single-shot shotgun with an 11-3/4″ barrel, two 12-gauge pump-action shotguns with 14″ barrels, a .22 rimfire pump-action rifle with a 17-7/8″ custom barrel and a .223 calibre rifle with a 14″ barrel — AND ALL OF THEM ARE NON-RESTRICTED. THAT IS BECAUSE THEY EITHER LEFT THE FACTORY WITH THOSE BARRELS, OR WERE FITTED WITH FACTORY- OR CUSTOM-MADE BARRELS IN THOSE LENGTHS AT SOME LATER DATE, and were NEVER fitted with a longer barrel. One left the factory with NO barrel, and so a 14″ barrel could be legally fitted.”
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u/TheGoldShipper Jul 27 '26
If the 8” barrel was prohib I wouldn’t have been able to buy it from the store in the first place
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u/Sad-Stop-2401 Jul 27 '26
Barrels are not prohibited because classification applies to firearm and not barrel alone.
If say you put a shorter barrel (say 8 inch one) on a rifle that was having longer than 457mm barrel, it *may* be an issue.
But if you rifle was having 8 inch barrel to begin with, you are not adapting or modifying your firearm. You are replacing one barrel with functionally identical barrel of same length.
For example Tactical import can provide replacement barrels of 5 inch for its TR 410 Micro because they have a 5 inch barrel to begin with.
PS : I am Not a lawyer or firearm verifier. Just a firearm enthusiast.
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u/Sad-Stop-2401 Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
This is A-okay. This is how 410 TR Micro is NR because it was made that way from factory. Not adapted.
I do not fully understand this part, but did your 1970 10/22 "were NEVER fitted with a longer barrel."?
You said you used a specific custom barrel in an existing firearm (10/22) receiver from 1970, right? Was it having a 8 inch barrel to begin with?
PS: My intent here is to understand how you are applying laws and not to blame you or anything like that.
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u/goshathegreat Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
The greater than 457mm barrel is for centerfire only, rimfire just has to be longer than 26”. Basically Canadian firearm laws are highly regarded, so don’t try to make sense of it…
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u/Sad-Stop-2401 Jul 27 '26
This is not correct.
https://rcmp.ca/en/firearms/classes-firearms/classes-firearms-canada#s5
Firearms adapted from a rifle or shotgun, whether by sawing, cutting or any other alteration, and that, as so adapted are:
- less than 660 mm in length
- 660 mm or greater in length and has a barrel less than 457 mm in length
PS: As mentioned, I am an enthusiast only. If someone knows more on this topic, most humbly, I will like to be corrected.
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u/goshathegreat Jul 27 '26
Brother, you are not correct. What you are referencing is “sawing, cutting or any other alteration”, alterations being modifications to the original barrel that aren’t sawing or cutting, like snapping it in half.
Buying a brand new barrel and replacing the longer barrel is not an alteration to the original barrel. Therefore it is completely legal to do, and furthermore, you do not need to go to a verifier, as the gun did not change from NR to R at any point.
If you want to call your CFO to confirm this be my guest, but I and OP know the laws lol.
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u/Sad-Stop-2401 Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
(b) a firearm that is adapted from a rifle or shotgun, whether by sawing, cutting or any other alteration, and that, as so adapted
Brother, the alteration here is to a rifle or shotgun which is being adapted into a firearm that will be prohibited if (conditions).
Replacement of barrel will be an alteration to firearm, IMHO.
Its literal reading of the law.
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u/Hot_Cheesecake_905 Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26
You need to check the Firearms Act specifically, Section 84(1) - Restricted Firearm, paragraph (b):
- (b) a firearm that
- (i) is not a prohibited firearm,
- (ii) has a barrel less than 470 mm in length, and
- (iii) is capable of discharging centre-fire ammunition in a semi-automatic manner,
Barrel lengths are only defined for centre-fire firearms. Rimfires are excluded and thus have no barrel length requirements.
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-84.html
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u/Sad-Stop-2401 Jul 29 '26
Clause (i). It need to be NOT a prohibited firearm.
What is a prohibited firearm?
From the same section and link you posted.
prohibited firearm means
- (a) a handgun that but does not include any such handgun that is prescribed, where the handgun is for use in international sporting competitions governed by the rules of the International Shooting Union,
- (i) has a barrel equal to or less than 105 mm in length, or
- (ii) is designed or adapted to discharge a 25 or 32 calibre cartridge,
- (b) a firearm that is adapted from a rifle or shotgun, whether by sawing, cutting or any other alteration, and that, as so adapted,
- (i) is less than 660 mm in length, or
- (ii) is 660 mm or greater in length and has a barrel less than 457 mm in length,
- (c) an automatic firearm, whether or not it has been altered to discharge only one projectile with one pressure of the trigger,
- (d) any firearm that is prescribed to be a prohibited firearm, or
- (e) any unlawfully manufactured firearm regardless of the means or method of manufacture;
- (e) a firearm that is not a handgun and that
- (i) discharges centre-fire ammunition in a semi-automatic manner,
- (ii) was originally designed with a detachable cartridge magazine with a capacity of six cartridges or more, and
- (iii) is designed and manufactured on or after the day on which this paragraph comes into force; (arme à feu prohibée)
Being prohibited takes precedence over being restricted. A firearm that is prohibited will not be a restricted one by definition. So we check if a firearm is prohibited or not first. This one ... appears to meet (b)(ii) of definition of prohibited firearm.
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u/Hot_Cheesecake_905 Jul 29 '26 edited Jul 29 '26
Keep reading clause (i)…
(e) a firearm that is not a handgun and that
(i) discharges centre-fire ammunition in a semi-automatic manner,A 10/22 is a rimfire and is excluded from these rules and is also why you can more than 5 rounds in a rimfire semi-auto.
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u/Sad-Stop-2401 Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26
u/varsil I am sorry that I had to involve you in this. I never intended to but since you have done favour to the community in past in these matters of general knowledge of canadian gun laws (in your videos), it will be great if you can throw some light on this understanding of definition of prohibited firearm.
If one replaces a longer barrel in his rifle to a barrel shorter than 457 mm (without cutting or sawing but just replacing fully), if and how does it changes classification of the firearm?
Here someone has replaced a barrel (possibly longer than 457) in a rimfire rifle to 8-inch one, is this going to have any effect on the classification of their modified firearm? Like it possibly becoming prohibited?
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u/Dry-Leek-1719 Jul 28 '26
For rimfire rifle the barrel can be any lenght but the oal need to be 26 inch or more easy as that
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u/Hot_Cheesecake_905 Jul 28 '26
Also the way barrel length is measured is different for centre fire and rimfire. Center fire, it excludes muzzle devices; rimfires can include muzzle devices.
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u/Hot_Cheesecake_905 Jul 27 '26
No alterations were made as these are all factory parts.
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u/Sad-Stop-2401 Jul 27 '26
You can make your firearm prohibited even with factory parts. If the length of the barrel in his original 10/22 was > 457mm, then replacing it with fractory part barrel of 8 inch will render firearm prohibited, AFAIK.
Its not the part that has classification, it is ... the firearm.
PS: Not a lawyer, not a legal advice.
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u/Hot_Cheesecake_905 Jul 28 '26
There are no barrel length requirements with rimfire, only overall length.
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u/JTrudeausLeftNut Jul 27 '26
My understanding is that alteration is key. If you cut the barrel and the stock = right to jail.
However if you assemble a firearm using factory parts, that have not been altered, then its okay. Has this been tested, lol idk. But that is what Ive heard.
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u/TheGoldShipper Jul 27 '26
That’s what I’ve seen from others builds, using the 8” barrel sold as an 8” keeps it legal
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u/Sad-Stop-2401 Jul 27 '26
Changing the barrel to a shorter one is adaptation, right? Law says adapted from a rifle or shotgun?
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u/EngorgedGorilla Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
Because the overall length is still 26". If it were a folding stock, it would be restricted (edit: not prohibited), but it's got a fixed stock. It has a commercially produced 8" barrel, not one that was cut down by the owner.
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u/skelectrician Jul 27 '26
There's no minimum barrel length for rimfires, just a minimum overall length of 660mm (26")
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u/Sad-Stop-2401 Jul 27 '26
This is incorrect, please read the defn of prohibited firearm at :
https://rcmp.ca/en/firearms/classes-firearms/classes-firearms-canada#s5
It applies to all firearms including rimfire.
PS : Not a lawyer, not a legal advice.
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u/hunterofsteelhead Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
You keep saying youre not an expert and asking people to correct you and then when they correct you then you default to posting the same thing over and over. BTW I havent downvoted you im just confused whether you actually know what youre talking about or just repeating rcmp nonsense over everybody that may actually be correct
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u/Sad-Stop-2401 Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
Not one of them have quoted an authoritative source or have admitted to be a lawyer or someone who knows this law well. To top it all some of them have made some obvious mistakes.
Again, it is not about me being right as much as it is to have an authoritative answer to this. The reason is because this is something that can land a person in trouble. I will like them to be able to find the right source for this question.
My position comes from the obvious literal reading of the law. If that is not correct, I will love to have an authoritative source for that.
BTW, it is not RCMP bullshit. It is actually the law. That is literal text of Firearms Act.
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-14.html#h-117002
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u/TheGoldShipper Jul 27 '26
I’m going off the basis that a factory 10/22 8” barrel swap is not an alteration, it’s a part replacement. Then, since it’s not prohibited, it also isn’t restricted, because it’s rimfire. To be restricted It (ii) has a barrel less than 470 mm in length, and iii) is capable of discharging centre-fire ammunition in a semi-automatic manner. So since it meets the OAL requirement it would be non-restricted.
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u/Sad-Stop-2401 Jul 27 '26
If I were you, I would take a second opinion from a lawyer or a verifier. If you are covered by firearm insurance (this subreddit recommends that you should), you might get a consult that is covered. Do not take my words, talk to those professionals who understand this professionally and are legally bound to serve your interest.
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u/hunterofsteelhead Jul 27 '26
And that rcmp qoute you keep posting , is it referring to rimfire firearms and is changing the barrel to a factory barrel considered an alteration? If neither then that qoute doesnt apply
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u/Sad-Stop-2401 Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
No, that definition is applicable to firearms (and that means all firearms).
I believe if you go through my responses, the literal reading of the law is that modification (say be substituting) the barrel with another barrel of different length should trigger adaptation part of the definition. However, to the best of my reading of the law, if you replace the barrel with exactly same length barrel, say reparing the firearm, it should not be considered as adapation. Because the length of the barrel was that to begin with.
The source of barrel is not been mentioned in the law. However, when a firearm is produced out of the factory, it will not be called as adapted because the firearm was made that way only. So a firearm that came out with say 5 inches barrel (like TR410 micro) should not trigger this part of definition, IMHO.
Here, likely, an existing longer barrel was replaced with a shorter one. Which can likely trigger this definition of prohibited firearm.
The question is not that of factory or non factory in barrel because barrels do not have firearm classes. It is if firearm has been adapted or not.
Here is the Firearm Act, definitions. Search for prohibited firearms. The text is literal.
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-14.html#h-117002
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u/hunterofsteelhead Jul 27 '26
I saw your post about sawing or cutting the barrel to shorter lengths but I dont see where you posted the law that says a shorter factory barrel cant be installed
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u/Sad-Stop-2401 Jul 27 '26
(b) a firearm that is adapted from a rifle or shotgun, whether by sawing, cutting or any other alteration, and that, as so adapted
So yes, replacing longer barrel with shorter barrel should apply, IMHO. Replacing longer barrel with shorter barrel is an alteration to firearm. Likely it may trigger this part of definition.
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u/NeruLight Jul 27 '26
You’re effectively trying to tell people that putting a 16” barrel on your 18” factory Ruger model is against the rules. It isn’t. IANAL but the source here is the hundreds of people who have put 12” and 8” barrels on them.
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u/Hot_Cheesecake_905 Jul 27 '26
Rimfire doesn’t have barrel length minimums, and the barrel was manufactured to be 8”. Rimfire only needs to be 660mm OAL and that can include the muzzle device.
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u/Sad-Stop-2401 Jul 27 '26
This is incorrect, please read the defn of prohibited firearm at :
https://rcmp.ca/en/firearms/classes-firearms/classes-firearms-canada#s5
Firearms adapted from a rifle or shotgun, whether by sawing, cutting or any other alteration, and that, as so adapted are:
- less than 660 mm in length
- 660 mm or greater in length and has a barrel less than 457 mm in length
It applies to all firearms including rimfire.
PS : Not a lawyer, not a legal advice.
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u/ExplosiveFetusActual Jul 28 '26
My guy, it has long been established in our firearms legal system that installing a factory produced short barrel is NOT an illegal alteration of a firearm. The section of law pertaining to that is in reference to someone cutting down or somehow otherwise shortening a barrel.Aftermarket short barrels for pump action shotguns and rimfire rifles have been big sellers here in Canada, with a lot of local businesses producing them.
You're reading a small section of the firearms act and I understand it is easy to interpret the wording as you do, but YOUR interpretation of law doesn't matter. Courts and past cases are what decides how the firearms act is interpreted, and there hasn't been a single case of someone getting convicted on installing a short barrel while keeping all other measurements nonrestricted.
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u/TheGoldShipper Jul 29 '26
To end this debate: response from the CFP: “The Ruger 10/22 is with the 203mm (8 inch) barrel is classified as non-restricted. You are correct in the fact that if the stock remains fixed and not a folding stock, the firearm will remain non-restricted.”
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u/Sad-Stop-2401 Jul 29 '26
If you have that in writing from CFP, you are golden. Then that is the case. It is non-restricted.
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u/starw24-ps4 Jul 27 '26
I’ve got something similar in the works! Going to be posting her when she’s all done. Yours looks great!