r/canadaguns • u/Flat-Dark-Earth Big Bore Specialist • 14d ago
Misc Rifles designed before December 15, 2023 that can still make the cut.
12/15/2023 was the cutoff deadline for semi auto centrefire rifles (STANAG) that can still be approved by FRT without having to meet the new requirements of Bill C-21.
We’ve had a few trickle through in the last year (Alcor, Chimera, L85AI, Makasi, Carmel) etc.
Are there any other models that could potentially meet this same criteria and doesn’t already have an approved FRT or do we think this will be it?
I’m sure there are still some obscure American or European makes that have not yet been submitted.
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u/Midnightmax_ 14d ago
The Desert Tech MDR got a prohib FRT for being to easy to convert to full auto. Desert Tech essentially designed a new gun and made it near impossible to convert to full auto. The Wlvrn got a prohibited FRT for being a variant of the MDR.
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u/swift_gilford 14d ago
The problem is with the current administration is we've seen time and time again, even if the firearm fits all the criteria, they will just prohib it by name.
They do not care. They are not trying to hide it. The current goal is anything semi. After that it's anything with detachable magazines. Manual action repeaters will be next or required to have permanent plugs if things keep going their way.
They simply do not like them(firearms) or us owners.
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u/MapleDesperado 14d ago
And this is the most infuriating thing about it. For a party that so strongly promoted evidence-based policy, they really fail on front.
If they want to ban semi-auto weapons, then have the debates. Marshal the evidence. Put it all out there and pass some coherent legislation. A lot of people wouldn’t like it, but at least it would be following a process that can be respected. And there’s a decent chance that the legislation would die in committee anyway.
The ban by a thousand administrative cuts based on public relations spin is so contrary to the principles of good government.
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u/dewky 14d ago
Exactly. If their goal is to ban all semi automatics then do that. Stop this make work project they have going on and just lay it all out based on evidence.
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u/Azules023 14d ago
If they wanted to do that they would have done it in 2015 when Trudeau got his majority. The reality is if they did that then they would have paraded around their ‘assault weapons’ propaganda in 2015/2016 and it would old news by now.
Banning by name gets their propaganda tool out there and they can make big announcements. We all know gun crime would be about the same if they did the ban a decade ago and then they would be taking a lot of heat now. Doing it this way makes it look like they’re doing something to their ignorant voters without actually doing something. Poly would also have lost a lot of their funding too so they benefit from the way it’s rolled out.
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u/Background-Way7794 11d ago
i recall Trudeau inc. was showing he was different to Harper inc. by saying they they would apply "evidence based decision making " ... but i guess they didn't apply to THAT kind of evidence, just evidence they wanted to accept.
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u/Armedfist 14d ago
Need to get sako to make their “valmet” models again
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u/Flat-Dark-Earth Big Bore Specialist 14d ago
Mass produced valmets for $3000, would sell like hot cakes.
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u/Armedfist 14d ago
Let’s just say 2k for the stamped version and 3k for the milled version. All with 18.5in barrel
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u/SisyphusCoffeeBreak 13d ago
Can’t we get some existing manufacturer to make a Valmet under license? Instead of Turkish manufacturers making all the weird shit
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u/Dummy_Wire 14d ago
I’m sort of shocked we even have as many options of pre December 2023 designs that weren’t prohibited by name or designated as “variants” as we do.
There might be a few more that have had a long development, and are still yet to be wide-released, but personally, I’m not holding my breath. If they’re selling the Alcor and Chimera as top-5 options, unless there’s something really good that’s been stuck in R&D hell, I think these are it, for us, for now (SKS master race, btw).
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u/Flat-Dark-Earth Big Bore Specialist 14d ago
Did anybody here even know about the Makasi a year ago? I didn’t. Hoping there are a few more stragglers like that.
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u/LordRaizer 14d ago
There is the MA Vintorez that got an FRT (last year?) and I think is legal right now
But the problem is it's Russian, and we won't be able to get it because of sanctions iirc
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u/Flat-Dark-Earth Big Bore Specialist 14d ago
Right. Forgot about that one. It was approved for restricted.
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u/KrumbunculusBoi 14d ago
What if a manufacturer makes a licensed clone of it? Would it need its own FRT?
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u/Bull-RunTheJewels 14d ago
I’m picking up the Browning Bar mk4 DBM in the fall 100%
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u/BowFella 14d ago
Hopefully its better than the Mk3. That thing was a POS for a $2K gun.
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u/Bull-RunTheJewels 13d ago
What was wrong with it?
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u/BowFella 10d ago
A 2-4moa semi that has a shifting zero without a free floating barrel and needs 4 tools just to disassemble should not be worth anywhere near $2K. It's basically just a slightly more accurate SKS
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u/Bull-RunTheJewels 10d ago
So basically I should just buy an Adler AD500 for $900 and hope for the best haha
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u/BowFella 10d ago
I've heard of lots of reliability issuses with the AD500. If you're spending that kind of money on a semi and want a big game hunting cartridge then pick up the benelli R1. More accurate, toolless takedown, free floating barrel, and also has the barrel tapped for irons if you want.
Also the same price too.
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u/QuarterFantastic6134 14d ago
Bigger injustice is them expressly naming the Serbu Buttmaster as a prohib. That would have been the best conversation piece ever. 😢
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u/3e_Design 14d ago
there are others domestically made. I made several designs prior to 2019. No, Im not listing my still legal guns here.
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u/Plasma_48 14d ago
How easy was it to get the manufacturing license? What do you need to go through? Can I ask where you are located or if you are in Ontario? I want to design some items (not even necessarily manufacture them) but need a manufacturering license just to design them anyway.
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u/3e_Design 14d ago
Alberta. back in 2008 when I initially got it, it was easy. I even could build and posess prohibited devices.
I cant say what it is like now.
You dont need a manufacturing licence to build a lot of things... just barrels, receivers, ammunition and likely a few others that are not coming to mind.
what do you want to make? you may be able to do so, right now.
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u/Plasma_48 14d ago
Oh, I know I can’t, a bunch of different 3d printed receivers (most of which should be NR FWIW), barrels for those receivers, electronic priming and trigger units (like a modernized etronX with a ton of sensors), and some other stuff. It’s more for personal learning with the potential to sell any surprisingly useful designs. I don’t have a building to use as a business, hence mostly designing with the potential for accessible manufacturing.
What about ammo is illegal?
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u/Background-Way7794 11d ago
Basically, all that has to happen is for companies to go back in time, and look at military "Trials Rifles" that were submitted over the the last 120 years or so. Every time a government / military put out tenders for a new semi-automatic, several companies would send in designs to be tested. To be fair, some were pretty bad, clearly, but many other came in a close second or third place, so those would have merit. The guns were tested, and reports written, so companies already know what to do to make them better... and, being obscure designs, that of course have been manufactured, they are most likely not a variant of anything really. For example, just look at Swedish or Russian military "Trials Rifles" there are dozens of designs that were made, like the AK-46.
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u/Flat-Dark-Earth Big Bore Specialist 11d ago
I always wondered if we could get the AR-16 approved here.
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u/HappyCan7250 14d ago
As a side note related to this, received my Backland Hunter pro comp this week, and it actually feels quite well made. Crusader also has been super fast in responding to the few emails I've sent them.
Going to try it out this weekend for the first time, but its a pretty sweet rifle too. I love that it is top charging. Mags aren't my favourite, would've preferred STANAGs, but they seem to feed well enough with dummy rounds. Don't love the stock design but the rifle itself is quite nice and machining looks fairly good when I took it apart.
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u/Embarrassed-Egg-9671 14d ago edited 2d ago
The last round of bans had dozens of rifles banned based on looks, nothing to do with what's on paper. Politicians make the ban list, not RCMP. Anything semiauto that looks military and can be easily adapted to take magazines with capacities over 5 rounds will be added to the list eventually.
The first rule of gun club is, we don't talk about gun club. If you have something not on the list and you don't want it banned, never talk about it on the internet. Just be happy you own it, enjoy it. That's it.
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u/Bull-RunTheJewels 14d ago
Anyone have any info on the Smith & Wesson Response?
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u/Flat-Dark-Earth Big Bore Specialist 14d ago
Is there a new S&W semi auto that was submitted to the lab?
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u/Acceptable_Visit_115 14d ago
Wasn't there a recall on that early on?
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u/Parking_Media 14d ago
I don't think we need to be overly picky here man, we can fix it after the fact, just need it approved first
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u/Bull-RunTheJewels 14d ago
Apparently they did a recall and repaired the rifles. Because the response barrel is 16.5 inches it would fall under the restricted category.
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u/HumbleAir1632 14d ago
Which rifle would that be? I cant find anything.
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u/Bull-RunTheJewels 14d ago
How can you not find anything? Google Smith and Wesson Response.
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u/HumbleAir1632 5d ago
I thought it was the response from the rcmp about a rifle submitted by Smith and Wesson.
I did not realize the rifle was called the response lol.
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u/Spider-King-270 14d ago
Springfield Hellion?