r/canadaguns • u/Travdaman420 • May 26 '26
News / Politics / Activism So I guess crossbows for home defense are legal now, as long as you shop on Amazon Canada?
Stumbled across this and was like, are they serious? Regardless of the spelling of defence or whatever, this could still be bought by a child? With no training or license.
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u/Blazanar May 26 '26
It's legal as it shoots under 500fps. You can absolutely get crossbows that fire faster than that, but those require licenses.
As for home defense, no. We can't buy anything explicitly used to defend ourselves but we can use things to defend ourselves within reason.
I can legally walk around all day long with a machete strapped to me and that's fine. If the cops ask me why I'm carrying a machete, and I say "self defense", I'm fucked. That implies I am showing intent to potentially harm another person. If I say "It's because I'm headed to the woods and was going to use it to clear some brush", that's fine. It's also fine if I'm in the woods and someone else tries to attack me with a similar or greater weapon, I can then legally defend myself with the aforementioned machete and probably not face a whole lot of consequences, assuming I don't go ape shit and dismember the body to hide it or something.
If I break into your home with a shotgun and you fire that crossbow at me, the chances of you facing any jail time is slim, even if you kill me with it. If you shoot me and I attempt to flee, regardless of what direction I'm facing, the attack is now legally to be considered over and you can no longer harm me. If you do, then it becomes excessive force.
Our laws are dumb sometimes.
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u/FrithTheCrow May 26 '26
To expand and clarify, from Former Prohibited Weapons Order No. 3:
"7 A crossbow or similar device that
(a) is designed or altered to be aimed and fired by the action of one hand, whether or not it has been redesigned or subsequently altered to be aimed and fired by the action of both hands; or
(b) has a length not exceeding 500 mm."
Section 84, subsection 3 of the Criminal Code of Canada lists items not considered firearms for the purposes of certain other sections:
"(d) any other barrelled weapon, where it is proved that the weapon is not designed or adapted to discharge
(i) a shot, bullet or other projectile at a muzzle velocity exceeding 152.4 m per second or at a muzzle energy exceeding 5.7 Joules, or
(ii) a shot, bullet or other projectile that is designed or adapted to attain a velocity exceeding 152.4 m per second or an energy exceeding 5.7 Joules."
152.4 m/s converts to 500 fps. An airgun, being barrelled, that shoots over 500 fps is considered a firearm and requires a PAL (firearms license). A crossbow, not being barrelled, does not fall under this particular section.
Section 88 prohibits carrying a weapon for purposes dangerous to the public peace, and unfortunately disabling and dissuading criminals is considered dangerous to the public peace. While people like to think the law treats people as innocent until proven guilty, when it comes to weapons or anything that could be construed as a weapon the law ends up treating people as guilty until proven innocent, and even if you can win in court, the process is punishment unto itself.
Tl;dr: This country is fucked and our laws are jank
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u/FrithTheCrow May 26 '26
Unrelated question/discussion topic:
Can a plumb bob be considered a prohibited weapon under FPWO No. 2 sec. 4?
"Any instrument or device commonly known as âmanrikigusariâ or âkusariâ, being hexagonal or other geometrically shaped hard weights or hand grips linked by a length or lengths of rope, cord, wire or chain, and any similar instrument or device."
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u/gnu_gai May 26 '26
Not a lawyer, but I would assume if you're using it as intended it would be fine, kind of like how nailguns are exempt from firearms law when used in proper context. But if you try to use a nailguns to assault someone you get whacked with firearm charges; likewise I suspect if you assault someone with a plumb bob the prosecutor might try to hit you with prohibited weapon charges
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u/HappyCan7250 May 27 '26
Ha. They basically did exactly describe a plumb bob.Â
To be fair, a getting hit by a steel plumb bob on a long rope would fucking hurt. Prohibited! Your walls are not allowed to be squared!
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u/Previous-Season-8800 May 29 '26
I mean, if you ever k*ll a home invader with a plumb bob, please make sure it's on video lol. Sounds gnarly.
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u/HappyCan7250 May 27 '26
It's funny that self defense I guess is considered "dangerous to public peace". LPC just telling us "shut up and die quietly peasants!"Â
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u/scottsuplol May 26 '26
What licence is for crossbows? To my knowledge the 500 fps only applies to air guns
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u/VanillaHighlights May 26 '26
The 500 FPS quote is pure fantasy - you're right that it pertains to airgun.
High end Tenpoint (~$4000 hunting crossbow) shoots 450 FPS.
Maybe the dude heard "You can only hunt with crossbows during RIFLE season in Alberta" and got confused. Confidently incorrect.
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u/Additional_Fold_1350 May 26 '26
I was going to say, never heard of a crossbow that requires licensing. Mine has a 400lb draw weight and hits 400 fps, though yeah some of those higher end crossbows are even faster.
I shot my deer last fall at 25 yards and had a complete pass through double lung shot. And that bolt still went another 20 yards, and that was after smashing through a rib on entry, and completely cutting and severing two ribs on exit. Deer ran 25 yards before massive blood loss internally,no blood trail at all, and didn't even bleed when I cut the throat. Chest cavity was easy a gallon or more blood to pour out. Expandable 3 blade 1 1/2' cut broadhead.
From that alone I think Id rather be shot with a rifle than a crossbow. Lungs in that dear were completely shredded, would have been a rough way to go, but it was quick. Heard a death wheeze at 2min after the shot and was gutting within 10 min of the shot.
I'm going to try and get a medical exemption to hunt Crossbow in bow season (Alberta) due to a wrecked rotator cuff that has been messed up for 13 years. Drawing a bow at legal big game draw weight is impossible without pain these days and it would be great to get out for deer early season when I see a lot of Mule deer which bow isn't a draw where I hunt while rifle is.
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u/Foreign_Risk_2031 May 26 '26
âI use it to cut my hairâ
Itâs city dependent though, city of toronto will have you face down ass up by the cops
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u/Natural_Comparison21 May 26 '26
Nope that 500fps limit does not apply to crossbows. Otherwise you could not get a Ten Point 505 or 515. Itâs just that most crossbows donât crack 500fps. Itâs already a lot for them to crack 450fps.
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u/Scary-Detail-3206 May 26 '26
Thankfully I have my yard set up with coyote and raccoon 3D archery targets and I was just practicing my night time predator defence when an intruder befell upon an unfortunate accident.
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u/LordRevan1996 May 26 '26
The chances of jail time probably depend on the judge, but ya in theory youâd likely face no jail time if all you did was defend yourself.
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May 26 '26
[removed] â view removed comment
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u/IGnuGnat May 26 '26
I have a herniated disk so moving things around is painful, but I like to get outdoors and I have a place i the bush up North. So I just leave my van packed with camping gear, axes, a starter pistol used as a bear banger, bear spray etc. It's impossible to pack all the gear the morning of, I usually try to pack it at least a week in advance. It's a nine hour drive to my destination so I stop at multiple places along the way.
This may put me at some risk, I really don't know what an officer in Toronto would do if they opened the back door of my van and saw the axe sitting right there. To be honest I don't really care. I'm going the best I can to live my life with a painful disability. I'll deal with it when it happens
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u/Additional_Fold_1350 May 26 '26
Only thing I take out of my truck in Edmonton are my crossbow or guns. Been pulled over with machetes, fixed blade knives, and tomahawk strapped to the back of my front seats more than once.
Same question every time upon search, as they can see them flashing lights into my back seat. "What are those for???" I give a simple answer, "for work they are tools and I'm in the bush alot for work." Never had a problem as I'm not a city person, and look like I just climbed out of the bush in my day to day. Now if I have a gun in the truck it is trigger locked and behind the back seat which they never seem to be able to release to look so assume it doesn't unlatch. Fords are a pain that way. But I never disclose its there either considering its usually my churchill shorty 12ga, which is scary to city folks. Father in-law keeps telling me its illegal as its restricted, but nope its a 12" barrelled pump factory so all good.
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u/IGnuGnat May 26 '26
I hear you. We have a cage behind the front seats, so nothing is within reach but the axe is sometimes strapped to the inside of one of the rear doors. It's for firewood, for camping and the woodstove, which should be obvious but I have wondered what would happen if an officer passed by while I had the back doors open in Toronto, just doing groceries or something. There are no windows in the back of the van, so nobody can just see inside, unless the doors are open. Sometimes I transport a firearm, locked in the back out of sight, everything is legal and kosher. If I'm on my way to the cottage and I do have a firearm in the back and they ask if I have weapons I guess I have to tell them? but I'm not breaking any laws. Obviously I don't store the firearm there, and we don't even go inside a restaurant to eat; we do takeout, and eat in the van so the firearm would never be unattended in the back of the van, although I might load it into the vehicle inside my garage and leave it there for a day. I maintain that when my disability is considered what I am doing is completely reasonable from my perspective, hopefully an officer would see it that way
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u/Additional_Fold_1350 May 26 '26
I always answer no to the weapons questions, They are tools not weapons in Canada, never say weapons we aren't allowed to have those in Canada ;)
The worst tool in my truck is probably my 20" breaker bar i keep in my drivers door pocket. I hate looking for it when I need to change a tire and its always buried under something when I need it so it stays at hand. It's also a great "tire thumper" and could technically be good for thumping arseholes if push came to shove. But as my Dad said as an RCMP officer years ago, "everything's a tool until you use it as a weapon, and weapons are just great tools to have in certain circumstances" Anything can be a weapon, pens, newspapers, belts, even a ball cap can be used as a capture and control device, kids toys like a skipping rope, or even my computer keyboard if I was to wack someone with it ;)
Basically depends on when, where, why, and if you can justify it. Ive carried a knife every day of my life for the better part of the last 45 years. Dad taught me to always carry a tool, only places I don't are when flying commercial, or courthouses. I get some looks some places as I always carry a 3-4" fixed blade on my belt and use it at least 10 times a day. I rotate multiple knives for carry as a collector, but always select one based on what I will need for most of my day.
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u/IGnuGnat May 27 '26
LOL
I try to leave knives around because I always need one, so I've got one in every tool bag. I carry a little "bucket" around with me in the house that has a glass of water, my phone, a pair of fingerless gloves, a pencil, a marker and it usually has a small razor blade knife, and a larger folding knife. I'm always cutting up bits of paracord for something, opening packages, cutting wood and sometimes the cut edge is a little rough so I'll run the knife blade along it to smooth it out a little. My favorite bush knife is the Marine Raider by Ontario it's a super thick bowie, it's good for chopping brush and kindling, it's like a short machete. I've got some old bayonets that came with deep nicks in the blade from hacking on something metal, I passed a lawn mower blade grinder over it until the nicks were gone and then sharpened them up. I've got a little knife roll floating around somewhere. In my backpack I keep a little folding knife and a multi tool
onwards
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u/CallousDisregard13 May 26 '26
100%, bang on there my guy!
This isn't legal advice but always remember it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Especially with your family involved.
The last thing you want to be doing in a break and enter scenario is contemplating and hesitating, wondering if you're legally defending yourself/family enough or too much.
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u/boat02 on May 26 '26
Gotta start hiring referees for self defence. No training or experience with these scenarios. If I'm involuntarily put in such a situation, I wouldn't expect myself to keep an eye on where the self defence boundary is while in the heat of a life or death situation.
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u/Blazanar May 26 '26
Obviously it's going to hard to draw a hard cutoff most of the time, but I think excessive force is kind of obvious as well.
If I break into your home with a knife and I end up with 27 stab wounds and you're relatively unscathed, you're probably going to want to hire a good lawyer.
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May 26 '26
[deleted]
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u/Blazanar May 26 '26
You don't have a shotgun for home defense, that's incredibly illegal. You have a shotgun for hunting and other various sporting purposes. You can in theory use it for home defense, if the need arises however.
I'm not entirely sure how your handgun idea would work though. On one hand, investigators would discover two things pretty quickly. 1) There's no evidence of the intruder firing a shot and 2) the handgun is fake. On the other, it's obviously pretty stupid for a home owner to be able to verify the authenticity of a firearm in an extremely high stress situation, for which they're definitely not trained to handle.
If I'm tweaking and I come at you with an obvious Nerf blaster and you dome me, probably going to be an issue. If I come at you with a realistic looking airsoft gun, you're hopefully not going have any issues.
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u/IGnuGnat May 26 '26
Just to be perfectly clear:
Our laws say that it is illegal to purchase or possess anything for self defense against humans.
You do not have a shotgun, or anything else, for the purpose of self defense against humans, ever.
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u/dwelzy123 May 26 '26
What if the home intruder has a smaller knife, but you only have a machete and use it to defend yourself? No being snarky, just generally curious.
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u/CanadianGunNoob May 26 '26
You are all good so long as you put your off hand behind your back and hop on one foot. Might want to close one eye as well for good measure. That ought to even things up.
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u/SirKickBan May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26
The law generally considers, in this case, what a 'reasonable level of force' would be. People joke about it, but generally speaking if they have a knife and are close enough that you could hit them with any kind of holdable implement, you're probably fine so long as you stop when the threat is over.
It's not a matter of only using force equal to or lesser than their force, but rather about not escalating the situation.
For instance if you had a gun, and they had a knife, and you shot them from thirty feet away, then all else being equal that's going to be looked on much less favourably than if they were ten feet away, because in the latter situation the threat to you is much more immediate, and shooting them is less of an escalation.
The same idea would apply if you had a throwing knife. Nailing them in the eye from across the entire house is, while a sick shot to make, less legally defensible than stabbing them with it (Or hitting them from ten feet away), assuming they were the one to close the distance with you and not the other way around.
I think the real issue is that in a lot of these scenarios, even if you'd eventually be found innocent, there's still a decent chance of going to trial to actually prove that. And even if you go with the free lawyer, that's a lot of time and stress and trouble being heaped on people who don't need to be going through that.
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u/Additional_Fold_1350 May 26 '26
Just hit em with the back blunt side. It will incapacitate a limb and discourage but wont remove the limb.
I avoided a dog attack that way years ago when a neighbors pitbull came after me in our yard back on the farm during chicken butcher day. Broke some bones but the evil bastard lived. Told the neighbor to come get their obviously hurt dog and he asked me to put it down on the spot. Old 30-30 did the trick, but was in the house at the time and wouldn't have been the first choice anyways.
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u/Flashy_Inspector115 May 26 '26
Would you say animal defense is a good reason?
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u/SirKickBan May 26 '26
If you mean protection from animals, that's probably like the "Can I carry a machete and say I'm using it to clear brush" example. It works so long as a reasonable person would believe that's what you're actually doing.
So if you're chilling in the middle of the suburbs with a .308 "In case of animals", that's not gonna work out so well. But if you're in the woods you're golden.
Though at that point you need to start considering if you're in an area where hunting is legal, and how you'd prove you weren't hunting, if the answer to that is 'no'. -Personally if I were, say, going to a back country hike in a place or at a time where hunting wasn't allowed, I'd make sure to call someone in Parks Canada or maybe local emergency services and let them know I'll be out there. If you get questioned, you've got a pretty decent way to show your intent. Bonus points: If something bad happens to you out there, you're maybe a little bit less fucked too.
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u/Blazanar May 26 '26
Do you mean as if you're walking down the road and see someone obviously abusing an animal? I don't know specifically but I think that they absolutely should.
I know that self defense laws in Canada are extended to animals that you personally own, but there's a hard cap on the level of force you can use. If I kick your dog a bunch, you can absolutely beat the fuck out of me, but you cannot kill me intentionally to get me to stop, no matter how much I hurt your animal. And I know in some places (not 100% sure about Canada) that if I were die up to a year later and the cause can be traced back to the beating you've laid upon me, you can be charged with something.
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u/Perfect-Emphasis-211 May 30 '26
Self defense laws are not at all extended to animals or property in Canada. Livestock are the exception, but only if the attacker is not a human.
Someone starts to stab your dog, you can not  âdefendâ your dog under the guise of protecting your animal. In real world the police will be very hesitant to punish you for retaliating by subduing them and will be more interested in the weapons for a dangerous purpose charge. But any legal authority/protection would be achieved by any perceived threat to yourself or members of the public rather than the dog.
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u/Spread-Hour May 27 '26
Wait so hypothetically can I 'flee' in your direction and attack you and/or press charges for excessive force if you attack me while im 'fleeing'?
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u/International_Mud367 May 26 '26
You can buy these at most LGS and outdoor stores, doesn't need to come from Amazon.
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u/Travdaman420 May 26 '26
Is being 18 years old not a necessity to purchase a crossbow at a store like Cabela's or Canadian tire?
Retailers are required to verify an ID before they hand it over. So technically this is Amazon hosting unlawful items listed as a weapon.
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u/FearlessDevil666 May 26 '26
They could be just using the assumption that you have to be 18 to own a credit card, therefore you can purchase a bow with your legal age owned credit card. Much like you can get online pornography with your credit card without ID that you need to have when buying from a store. Iâm just guessing here though.
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u/cattabliss bc May 26 '26
who cares, young people find ways to buy things they shouldnt and have always done so
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u/Fish3Y35 May 26 '26
Lol, you can't have a Home Defense Slipper, never mind a crossbow.
This is why my slippers are all fuzzy pink bunnies. Not for home defense!
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u/4r4nd0mninj4 May 26 '26
Next up on the Liberal ban list "assalt-chanclas"~
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u/No-culture5942 May 26 '26
I mean this guy bought a gun ILLEGALLY and used it at SCHOOL and it was ruled self defense by a jury.
I don't see why you couldn't buy this LEGALLY and use it in your HOME
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u/mwmwmwmwmmdw May 27 '26
because the courts dont treat everyone equally by any means.
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u/NiccoloMachiavelli3 May 28 '26
Not necessarily true. Money talks so it depends whoâs representing you. A gangster from BC couple years ago who was prohibited from owning any weapons shot and killed someone who was shooting at him and wasnât charged with the killing, just the possessing illegal firearm.
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u/Cre_AK47 Name Prohibited by OIC May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26
Not a lawyer: BUT wow this crossbow design really pushes the limits of the law. It seems to be over 500 mm in overall length and with the included forward grip, implies that it's a two-handed crossbow, but it seems like if you either remove the forward grip or the buttstock, you may find yourself with a now prohibited weapon.
But yeah, that's the government for you!
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u/Whispersfine May 26 '26
So no single hand crossbow? Iâm not a crossbow guy so Iâm pretty ignorant on that
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u/Cre_AK47 Name Prohibited by OIC May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26
That's correct, the only prohibited crossbows are:
- One-handed crossbows
- Crossbows with an overall length less than 500 mm.
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u/airchinapilot May 26 '26
Yup no one-handed
There is one of the great unsolved murders in my area where the daughter of a Hong Kong official who was studying at a college here was assassinated with one as she went to her car at a parking lot.
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u/AnyBath8680 May 26 '26
Do to how you work the action taking the butt off makes it sorta inoperable. You shove up on the butt and pull down the foregeip to cock it.
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u/FearlessDevil666 May 26 '26
165fps!?! You might as well throw darts. What a joke. And accurate to 100ft!?! At that speed youâd be aiming so high to hit 100ft you could jog to the target before the bolt gets there. This is no better than a recurve. The average compound shoots at 250-300fps. Most crossbows are shooting 350-400fps. This is nothing more than a childâs toy. Garbage!
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u/GreenCactus223 May 26 '26
Princess auto has these.
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u/Travdaman420 May 26 '26
Are they selling them to 11 year olds with prepaid visa cards?
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u/GreenCactus223 May 26 '26
I dont know how much I want to get into this conversation, im not sure the back story your'e talking about, please fill me in.
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u/AccomplishedOrder591 May 26 '26
It would be difficult for sure. But have you seen how this action works, breaks open near the pistol grip. Draws the bow like abreak open air rifle charges. May be easier than we think.
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u/MapleHamms May 26 '26
It being on the site doesnât make it legal for everyone to buy, especially not for home âdefenseâ
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u/Katolo May 26 '26
Why is defense in quotes...OP did the same thing and defense is valid spelling, albeit in US but Amazon is US.
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u/Additional_Fold_1350 May 26 '26
Exactly, i've seen knukles, balisongs, battons, even Tazers on Amazon
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u/Travdaman420 May 26 '26
Well obviously not. I'm not a moron. I was pointing out that the gov spends so much time going after legal firearm owners, but let's this shit slide.
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u/MapleHamms May 26 '26
But Amazon selling crossbows isnât illegal so thereâs nothing for them to go after. Itâs only illegal to have if youâre under 18 and/or use it for self defence. The legal issue would be with the owner, not the seller
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u/Travdaman420 May 26 '26
Is it not against the law the sell a weapon like this to a person, without verifying the are infact an 18+ year old adult? Nobody's verifying that when you use a prepaid visa.
Edit; so the delivery person would technically be responsible for verifying an ID wouldn't they?
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u/MapleHamms May 26 '26
Amazon operates with the reasonable assumption that accounts are made by adults who have credit cards and addresses to send things to. Iâm sure their lawyers have written enough fine print to cover them for situations like this
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u/Natural_Comparison21 May 26 '26
If someone under 18 has a Amazon account and is buying a crossbow with it thatâs a parenting problem not a Amazon problem.
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u/SerGT3 May 26 '26
You can walk into any Canadian Tire and have your pick of various sizes and lengths of axes to do with what you please. No ID required.
If that doesn't tickle your fancy you can head over to the kitchen section and check out all the knives too.
No ID required.
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u/CAFirearmSociety May 26 '26
I see this quite a bit due to retailers copy and pasting info from manufacturers who are usually directed at a US customer base.
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u/theservman on May 26 '26
You also need to subscribe to Prime.
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u/Travdaman420 May 26 '26
Right shit that $11 membership is just an absolute gatekeeper to the general public /s
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u/Any-Alternative8228 May 26 '26
Only 165 fps? Sorry not enough power for adequate penetration.
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u/oliveoillube May 26 '26
Fun fact. This one has a string kit you can buy that increases the power tremendously. Makes the bolts shoot halfway through three-quarter inch plywood and also if you donât use the vertical foregrip it will try to sever the top of your thumb
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u/ReturnOk7510 May 26 '26
It's Amazon. Draw weight isn't gonna cut it for hunting either, they just word salad the shit out of stuff to get it to pop up on a wide range of searches.
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u/Frosty-Reporter7518 May 26 '26
Just build a potato gun from Home Depot supplies and get a 3 inch ball bearing and your good
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u/mokapotWONTmokapot May 26 '26
Woah now thatâs too spooky in that assault colour.. maybe put a wood stock and elongate it to 18â so itâs legal for the amazon vans to carry them without an ATT
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u/bigT689 May 26 '26
Assault style crossbow ban incoming
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u/Natural_Comparison21 May 27 '26
They donât care about crossbows⌠Yet. Still very fixated on guns for now.
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u/pukalo_ May 26 '26
As long as the crossbow is >500mm in overall length it is legal and needs no license. Smaller ones and one-handed crossbows are prohibited weapons.
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May 26 '26
[deleted]
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u/Natural_Comparison21 May 26 '26
Guess when you were a boy you didnât live in China by chance? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repeating_crossbow
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u/beerbaron105 May 26 '26
My brother got me a Taser for my birthday, shipped from amazon, they pulled the listing almost immediately, but I still own it
the above post has been a complete hallucination from my mind
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u/madbuilder May 26 '26
The reaction you got here should give you pause to ask what is wrong with your way of thinking? After this fiasco of the last year, do you really want MORE regulation?
"Think of the children." Indeed.
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u/HappyCan7250 May 27 '26
FOC has these for sale right now for I think $299 on sale, or maybe $399. Significantly cheaper than Amazon though if you're actually considering buying one.Â
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u/Competitive-Pop-6346 May 27 '26
That crossbow is legal as it has a stock and foregrip , thus intended for 2 hand use, if they are removed or its operated 1 handed the crossbow is illegal, there is no license or any other considerations for crossbow in Canada.
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u/AnyBath8680 May 26 '26
A child won't have the strength to operate one of these
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u/Travdaman420 May 26 '26
I mean depends on what age you classify as a "child" you can also buy those reel things to help load them or however they operate. Sorry I'm not very familiar with the devices.
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u/Fit_Fuel_6515 May 26 '26
Even farting on a burglar is excessive force to some people