r/canadaguns • u/Few_Lynx2224 • May 26 '26
News / Politics / Activism Kodiak Defense is working on making browning BAR clones with detachable mags apparently
Since the design is older than bill C-21 they should be able to make them AR mag compatible for the .223 and .308 versions (Pistol Mags). I do appreciate the effort, although execution can be lacking with them from time to time.
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May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26
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u/Few_Lynx2224 May 26 '26
Kodiak has better QC than the Turks. There issue was the pistons on there guns were inherently a bad design and a hard design to fix without a complete overhaul of the platform. On top of that it is quite hard to produce a sub $2000 rifle in a first world country, even the Turks sell there semi auto rifles for the same price as the wk180s. Kodiak can now copy the browning operating system so I have fairly high hopes.
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u/DougMacRay617 May 26 '26
The problems with the guns were so much more then the pistons, that was just their biggest problem
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u/Few_Lynx2224 May 26 '26
The gen 1s sure but they were $1100. What was wrong with the gen 2s other than the pistons?
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u/DougMacRay617 May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26
The guns shot themselves apart regardless of the generation
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u/Acceptable_Visit_115 May 26 '26
The fact that they still shit out snapped pistons sideways from the ejection port while costing $1500 instead of $1200 (marked down to $1100 when gen2 was released).
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u/Acceptable_Visit_115 May 26 '26
The issue was not just the pistons.
- Load bearing threads on the reciprocating bolt handle that snaps off
- Poor heat treatment on the first batch of the bolt carriers that cracks
- Premature wear and even outright failure of the bolt catch
- Overall sloppy fit and finish
On top of that it is quite hard to produce a sub $2000 rifle in a first world country
The Americans are doing it just fine. And I'm not talking about AR-15s that benefit from the economy of scale and mature technology. PSA can pump out an AK for $1000 a pop.
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u/Few_Lynx2224 May 26 '26
Aks also have economy of scale as well let's be honest and PSA aks are going for $1100 usd right now which is $1500 cad. Kodiak as a startup did not have the time and money to do the mil spec testing the AK and AR had so they had to improve on there design after release. The gen 1 was terrible but the gen 2 if you had a steady supply of pistons was a capable gun. The gen 3 reworked the entire gas system and used an AR-10 handguard to fit it. Kodiak did pretty well the best they could with the resources they had.
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u/Acceptable_Visit_115 May 26 '26
They are not a startup. They've been making AR-15s for a few years before launching the WK180C in 2018. The WK180 series have been on sale for seven years prior to the Dec 2024 OIC. And in that time the prices did not drop with each iteration but have rather gone up, but with little improvements. For example, Gen2 raised the price to $1500 (although often discounted to $1400) yet they didn't bother to fix the gas piston. Why would someone treat the gas system, i.e. a vital part of a semiautomatic rifle, as a consumable?
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u/Few_Lynx2224 May 26 '26
To fix the gas piston you had to give up compatability with AR handguards. This was at the same time as TNA and SBI had started making ar-180 parts and these companies were slowly trying to develop a domestic ecosystem for Canadian 180 compatability based on the WS MCR. To change from this would be to abandon any effort of economy of scale for the Canadian 180 system so they were reluctant to do so, eventually they did with the gen 3 but that was a bit to late
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May 26 '26
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u/Few_Lynx2224 May 26 '26
They are no where close to milspec and the only thing that keeps there rifles cheap is economy of scale
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u/Acceptable_Visit_115 May 26 '26
Nobody said they are milspec.
They are still far, far better put together than a Kodiak product and far more reliable.
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May 26 '26
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u/Few_Lynx2224 May 26 '26
I understand how tough it is to design and produce firearms in Canada and will always defend Canadians who do so, but by all means grammar police that is the relevant point of discussion
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May 26 '26
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u/Few_Lynx2224 May 26 '26
So stop shit talking them on Reddit. The more you do the less likely they are to put a gun like this into production. They frequent the page (the wk180 gen 3 is evidence enough for that) so the more badmouthing you do the less likely they are to do a production run. Even if you never want a Kodiak product it only serves your best interest for more semis to be on the Canadian market
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u/Vegetable-Army-4872 May 30 '26
Just because it’s tough to design and produce firearms in Canada, doesnt mean you get a pass for selling an absolute shit product. You guys are a failure.
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u/Benefit_Waste May 26 '26
So I Might be a bit stupid but what would be the huge difference? I Know kodiak defense makes more modular stuff would it just be more modernized ?
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u/Few_Lynx2224 May 26 '26
Perhaps, but the BAR is a reliable system and having factory semi autos with detachable mags up to 10 rounds in a platform like that, plus a factory 18.5 inch barrel would be great. The BARs that browning sells have an internal magazine held in by a floor plate. These could be similar to the alcor and adler but more robust and made in Canada. They are also ban resistant as you would have to ban one of the most common hunting rifles in the country to ban the.
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u/Benefit_Waste May 26 '26
internal, meaning like a shotgun style tube magazine? I wonder if they'd make a BAR platform or a similar rifle with take down pins
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u/Few_Lynx2224 May 26 '26
The best way to describe the mag is a box mag that is held in the gun by a floor plate. Takedown pins would be cool but I don't know how possible
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u/Benefit_Waste May 26 '26
Oh no i was saying how most modern firearms have take down pins. Im not the best of knowledge when it comes to modern rifles and carbine style stuff, im mostly a milsurp guy
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u/Few_Lynx2224 May 26 '26
Yea, unfortunately takedown pins really only work if you have an upper and a lower. I'm sure they can fined some way to improve disassembly though
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u/Agonizing-Stroke1812 May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26
I know a lot of the newer licensed folks are desperate but really? a BAR clone from kodiak of all companies when you can just buy the real thing? Not worth it and it will likely be a total POS based on kodiak's track record.
Maybe I'm missing something here.. I cannot imagine anyone in their right mind would be trying to shoot some sort of competition with a BAR so they want detachable mags
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u/Most_Bath5811 May 26 '26
I think the main thing is that there is a semi auto 223 version. Browning hasn't made any 223 BARs as far as I know. As far as the other calibers, I'd rather the Browning.
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u/Few_Lynx2224 May 26 '26
Any semi that takes .223 or .308 with 10 round mags will sell well in Canada. People want them for a lot more than competition
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u/Agonizing-Stroke1812 May 26 '26
People want them for a lot more than competition
I hope none of the larpers are fantasizing about entrusting their life to a product produced by kodiak
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u/Acceptable_Visit_115 May 26 '26
Well Kodiak's rifle is designed in 2025 so it can't take more than 5 rounds lol
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u/Few_Lynx2224 May 26 '26
It has been confirmed with the RCMP that if the firearm is a variant then the date of design is the date of the original models design. Sterling arms determined this before they designed there PCC.
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u/Acceptable_Visit_115 May 26 '26
Interesting, where can I read more about this? Because that opens the door to quite a few semiauto reproduction firearms that are unnamed by various OICs.
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u/Few_Lynx2224 May 26 '26
Sterling talked about it in one of there promotional videos with the r9
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u/Acceptable_Visit_115 May 26 '26
Good to know. Was that about the R9 specifically (as it was relatively new)? Cus technically the R9 has been teased for a while and the base design might long predate the December 2023 deadline anyways, since firearm design takes time.
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u/Few_Lynx2224 May 26 '26
They stated that since the R8 was an R18 variant it wouldn't be affected by C21 they didn't mention production date and they said they confirmed it with the RCMP
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u/Acceptable_Visit_115 May 27 '26
Oh so they homologated the R9 as a R18 variant, itself an AR-180B variant.
And now JR Cox is mad that the RCMP banned the R9 as an AR-180B variant because from an engineering level, the R9 is indeed not an AR-180B variant, but JR Cox marketed it as such in order to be homologated in the first place.
Never change, JR. This is almost as stupid as the SG550 saga.
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u/matthew_py May 26 '26
Man.... Id take the risk of it being ban at some point for a proper BAR.
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u/Few_Lynx2224 May 26 '26
It can't be, because it is a variant of the BAR the way our laws work you pretty well have to ban both
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u/matthew_py May 26 '26
If they put it on the market its going to be the first post ban semi ill take a risk on.
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u/FenderFanatic May 26 '26
Their varient classification is so weird. I'm surprised the BAR isn't a variant of the BAR but the mossberg 715t is an AR 15 apparently. Hate it
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u/567432Gains May 26 '26
I love how stupid this is all getting. I’m not even joking when I say that. It’s like watching a bunch of dudes rail lines and come up with different ideas for restaurants together for 7 hours straight
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u/MacintoshEddie May 26 '26
Someone needs to try something with that semi-auto revolver design. Just get real weird with it.
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u/Smiley119 Artillery Only May 26 '26
I wish them the best of luck hopefully runs better than the 180C
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u/Dirk_Speedwell May 26 '26
I was like halfway through comments before I realized you are all talking about the contemporary semi-auto rifle and not the 1918 Browning Automatic Rifle. I was thinking that is cool and all, but pretty gimmicky, so the real context makes more sense.
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u/Chariotz4 bc May 26 '26
I was under the impression Browning already makes/made the BAR MK III/MK IV as a DBM model that took 10 round detachable mags. Not sure if any made their way up here though.
I think from the factory they had 18" barrels though so not quite long enough to be NR out of the box for us.
Curious as to what the price difference would be, but if these are affordable enough to make people purchase them, I'm not sure what the quality would be like given Kodiak's track record and reputation with the AR-180B clones especially since this already exists from Browning (even if they would be in completely different price brackets). Perhaps they would draw some interest if they were able to use readily available magazines?
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u/Acceptable_Visit_115 May 26 '26
Mk3 DBM was 18.0" and therefore was not brought in. Maybe the Mk4 DBM will be imported as it's 18.5". There's also a tacticool kit for the BAR DBMs.
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u/LordRaizer May 26 '26
BAR clone is cool I guess, but why doesn't Kodiak just revisit their SKS-KD idea instead?
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u/Dill_Pickle_Tears May 26 '26
Regardless of whether this product is actually good,
More semi autos hitting the market will incentivize further importing and signal to manufacturers and importers that it’s safe to do business. Hopefully we continue to get competitors to the BAR, R1 and we see more rifles like Makasi and Carmel (and the Backland/Alcor/A500).
This specific product proving to be a decent quality modular BAR style rifle, would be a bonus.
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u/itsyaboi6909 May 26 '26
Thanks Kodiak for producing a likely sub 500rd lifespan problematic garbage rod while also inadvertently bringing attention to having the BAR added to the list.
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u/Eisenbahn-de-order May 26 '26
Their take on FNAR it is
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u/Few_Lynx2224 May 26 '26
If they can keep make it a little more affordable they could be on to something
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u/tyler111762 Resident Certified Millennial Punk May 26 '26
another candidate for testing approaches...
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u/DoYouGetSarcasm May 26 '26
I wonder how much these will be, will they be mk1? Will kd modify the design and screw it up? The bar4 is coming to Canada in dbm in NR. How much cheaper is the kd version going to be that a real Browning mk4?
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u/cattabliss bc May 26 '26
what are the odds this gun becomes too popular and they come after all variants of bar ...
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u/Few_Lynx2224 May 26 '26
Low, because then the liberal party would loose a few thousand indiginous voters
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u/strickenchips May 29 '26
C'mon, do one in 300 WM too pls. (I need to get something as course to a Nemo Omen as possible lol)
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u/HappyCan7250 May 30 '26
Honestly, I know there's been issues with both Kodiak and Crusader QC, but I absolutely love the "fuck you government" mentality they seem to have with making semi auto options for us and the interesting loopholes they are finding.
Crusader using an M4 operating system to make an AR styled rifle was a cool idea, and from rumours I've read on here, they seem to improving on customer service and QC somewhat.
I frankly hope and want to see Canadian gun companies succeed (and treat their customers right), and welcome the news of any manufacturer sticking up the middle finger to the government by finding loopholes in C21.
Things are actually kind of looking up for us right now, with the court challenge, so many provinces opposing it, the government absolutely fucking up the whole file, and we now do have some really cool rifles coming in soon (Mk15, Carmel), even the Backland Hunter is sweet to have on the market, they seem to be selling well.
I noticed a new sub model of the Alcor for sale the other day too, with what looks to be a factory aluminum Mlok handguard on it, not aftermarket, it actually looked pretty cool with it, and I've always hated the Alcor/Chimera look until then.
For the first time in years, things are actually looking up for us, and I'm pretty pumped on it. I ordered a Mk15 basically right away, and was doing more reading on it lately, and am even more excited about it now too. Good reviews on them, even from Americans!
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u/Nervous-Muffin-6691 May 26 '26
Kodiak has a horrible track record but could this be more reliable since they are copying a proven platform?
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u/-DirtyCanadian- May 26 '26
They were copying a proven platform last time too
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u/Nervous-Muffin-6691 May 26 '26
I was thinking that as well. Wasn’t the 180 more of an abandoned platform in the US vs the BAR? I could be wrong tho
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u/Acceptable_Visit_115 May 26 '26
The AR-18 is a proven platform worldwide, just not in Canada.
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u/AndreiHoo May 26 '26
Will it survive 300 rds though