Owning guns- Right or Privilege?

[u/Low_Bar_804]

So obviously here in Canada our government sees private firearm ownership as a privilege rather than a right. My question is, how you guys feel? Do you think gun ownership is a right or a privilege?

When you look at other things people view as rights, such as abortion, freedom of expression and freedom of religion etc. These are all viewed by most as inherently “good rights”, but in many countries these rights are restricted. I think, along with many others, that it is justified to ignore unjust laws that restrict human rights.

I personally believe that firearm ownership is a fundamental human right because it protects all of our other rights and freedoms from being taken away. So even though legally speaking firearm ownership is a privilege that can be taken away at any time here in Canada, I don’t agree with the way our country and many others treat firearm ownership.

[u/SniperTeamTango]

The problem with firearms as a right in the US isn't that it's a right, it's that they have found ways to minimize the responsibility that comes along with said right. We need to, not do that.

That said, I continue to think the cfsc should require a proficiency element.

Additionally, there will always need to be some kind of rational stopping point (which we do not have a rational one right now), and there will ALWAYS be someone unhappy with how that affects them.

[u/Dill_Pickle_Tears → u/SniperTeamTango]

Agreed. I view firearms ownership similarly to vehicle ownership and licensing; though, I’d need to understand counterpoints for why firearms should truly be rights, since like you said it can be a slippery slope to allow for public safety negligence and lack of accountability or enforcement as seen in the US.

I think we have a right for the opportunity to enter the licensing process, to participate in hunting and sport, and to have OPTIONS (i.e. banning firearms is stupid) once we are licensed - provided we show competency and proficiency. Just like driving, you can lose your license and your privilege to own and operate a firearm if deemed to be a risk to others. Not sure how rights vs privileges affect this from a legal or philosophical perspective though.

[u/MilkIlluminati → u/Dill_Pickle_Tears]

I’d need to understand counterpoints for why firearms should truly be rights

1. I have a right to defend myself

2. I am a 110 pound, 5 foot tall, 70 yearold woman with a walker.

3. Therefore for me to have a right to self-defence in any real way rather than just lip service, I must also have a right to some tool that bridges the violence gap between me and a 220 pound, 6'4, 22 year-old male criminal on meth.

4. That's a gun.

5. I have the rights to a gun.

Funny enough, cases of self-defence with firearms that the courts gave a thumbs up to already exist in real life. Licensing is essentially on a shall-issue basis. Provisions for public concealed carry exist (albeit basically nobody passes that bar under current interpretations).

But we still have to do the stupid dance around how these are pieces of recreational sports equipment and absolutely nothing else.

[u/SniperTeamTango → u/[deleted]]

I'd say driving a car needs to be more strict than it is. I don't think either license should be renewable. Re take the test every 5-10 years or every x amount of points. Same could apply for guns, especially if you want higher performance guns (I'm not saying you shouldn't be allowed to have them, but I'm okay with a logic that says prove you can be responsible)

[u/Spydude84 → u/Dill_Pickle_Tears]

The right is the inherent ability. For firearms, it's to defend yourself and others and protect against state tyranny. Firearms are the current best tool for this, and while I believe they can be regulated in a way that is not onerous, such as requiring reasonable safety training, it should not be used as a tool to limit ownership otherwise. The CFSC and the CFP are a reasonable step. What is not reasonable is the wait times and lack of transparency of the process at times. 28 days should be a maximum limit, not a minimum. Waiting months or years is not reasonable. Magazine capacity limits are not reasonable, banning firearms by make or model or features is not reasonable. Registration is not reasonable since it only serves to disarm the population. There is no real way to get a carry license in Canada for personal protection, and while I think it's reasonable to have an easy proficiency test for this, it cannot be unreasonably expensive and the license should be attainable to anyone (with a firearms license).

[u/InitialAd4125 → u/Dill_Pickle_Tears]

Not really? Last I checked driving on public roads was a privilege but last I checked you don't need a license to drive on public land and you don't need a license to buy a car as far a I'm aware.

[u/general_bonesteel → u/InitialAd4125]

To transfer ownership of a vehicle usually requires proof of insurance which you need a license for. At least that's what I've experienced here in Onterrible. Maybe there's hedge cases for display/show cars.

[u/InitialAd4125 → u/general_bonesteel]

Maybe I honestly don't know like I've heard you can do some pretty wild stuff with farm vehicles that never leave the property.

[u/SniperTeamTango → u/[deleted]]

So while I agree with you, what I will remind you of is that every time you experience someone being an idiot on the road, is someone who passed a test once.

I think we can tell the government to squarely fuck off only once ongoing education/training is the norm. But yeah, Im not a fan of how we have gotten to the point that appearance of guns is enough to decide they are illegal or not. 2015 is really starting to feel like it was the "peak"