r/canadaguns • u/Flat-Dark-Earth Big Bore Specialist • Apr 18 '26
Milsurps / Prohib Let's Talk Lee-Enfield's
The Lee Enfield, a rifle that everyone is familiar with and many seem to own, yet somehow I never ended up adding one to the collection.
I'm playing catchup now and would like to pick up a Lee Enfield, the question is which one?
From my understanding there are 5-6 models of the rifle that evolved over it's ~60 years of military service.
For someone looking to buy their first, which examples should I be looking out for? Any to avoid? No.1? No.4? SMLE? Jungle carbine? Long Branch (Made in Canada?).
Also, there were a couple misconceptions surrounding this rifle that I had been told for years, the first was that these were $300-$400 rifles, that only appears to be the case for sporterized examples. Clean unbastardized examples seem to be going for $1,200-$1,800 at retailers today.
The second being that .303 ammo was "expensive" and hard to come by. Neither of these seem to be true as it’s priced comparable to 308 and I am seeing a ton in stock (PPU, S&B etc).
Edit: I think I have decided on a No.4 Mk 2 Long Branch.
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u/Apologetic-Moose Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26
For someone looking to buy their first, which examples should I be looking out for? Any to avoid? No. 1? No. 4? SMLE? Jungle carbine? Long Branch (Made in Canada?).
It really depends on your preferences quite a bit, especially if you're not a collector already. Is there a particular era of history you're more interested in?
I'd buy from the secondhand market personally, lots of retailers tend to overcharge for these. Certain rifles of a particular historical provenance (e.g. certain contracts) are more desirable for collectors. A very quick rundown:
No.1 (Long Lee): fair bit more expensive than SMLEs, usually in the mid-upper $1k range. IMO, if you're not already an Enfield collector then you should look elsewhere first.
No.1 Mk3 (SMLE): Standard going into WWI. Produced through WWII by Ishapore (India) and Lithgow (Australia). You can find originals for $7-800 pretty regularly on the used market, more for numbers matching. If you ask me, it's pretty hard to go wrong with an SMLE for the money.
No.4 Mk1: standard going into WWII. Changes from the SMLE include rear peep sight instead of the notch, removal of the nose cap, etc. Most of these changes were intended to bring the manufacturing cost down. They're priced higher because people pay more for WWII era kit - if you're savvy you can find them from $800, but standard pricing is $1100-1200. Long Branch rifles command a premium here because of the Canadian connection, ~$1300-1400 for average examples is fairly common.
No.5 Mk1 (Jungle carbine): what it says on the box. Lightened and shortened Lee with a flash hider slapped on the end of it. The lower weight means they have significantly punchier recoil, but I know you're probably fine with that. $750-850 usually.
What to avoid: IMO, rebarreled drill purpose guns (red and white paint on stock) or restored sporters. These tend to be quite a bit cheaper since they're not "correct," but unless you know what issues to look for, I'd steer clear. Not all restorations are done with the same level of quality.
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u/Flat-Dark-Earth Big Bore Specialist Apr 18 '26
Thanks for the detailed write up, I’m currently debating between the SMLE and the No.4. Having one that was Canadian-made would definitely add some appeal.
Is there any general rule that the SMLE WW1 rifles are more beat up than the No.4 from WW2 or is it more of a rifle by rifle basis?
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u/Apologetic-Moose Apr 18 '26
Is there any general rule that the SMLE WW1 rifles are more beat up than the No.4 from WW2 or is it more of a rifle by rifle basis?
Definitely rifle by rifle. Lots of pictures or an in-person inspection is a good idea. Military issue .303 Brit ammo used corrosive primers right through WWII, so assuming the two rifles have seen the same amount of ammunition and received the same general treatment, they'd be in similar condition. SMLEs can be upwards of 40 years older than No.4s, and the wood can definitely show it sometimes, but there are plenty of pristine SMLEs and shoddy No.4s.
There is a caveat for No.4s made at the end of WWII and afterwards - many of those would have seen significantly less combat/rough conditions than most SMLEs, and wartime production No.4s had some pretty rough finishing due to accelerated manufacturing. But in general, bumps and dents in the wood are going to be the rule, not the exception.
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u/jollygreengiant1655 Apr 18 '26
Great write up. The only thing I'd say, more of a nitpicky detail, is that the No4 wasn't the standard going into WWII. It was officially adopted in 1939 but they didn't really get production going until 1941. It was pretty much SMLE's for the first 2 years of the war.
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u/Apologetic-Moose Apr 18 '26
Good catch, thanks. Interesting to me that the original trial run of No.4s was in the early 1930s, so they clearly had the data package and tooling, but didn't start production until a decade later. I wonder if they just had enough SMLE parts laying around in the arsenals that it didn't make sense to switch until they were all used up.
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u/jollygreengiant1655 Apr 18 '26
IIRC that was certainly part of it. But they also didn't want to replace the old reliable SMLE workhorse unless it was with something better, so they took their time to make sure it was. And there was also some pretty big complacency/war hangover/lack of funds in that time.
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u/Wokeforpepe Apr 18 '26
The recoil from the No. 5 is not something I would consider terribly punchy. It’s a genuine joy to shoot honestly.
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u/lerch_up_north lost in the praries Apr 18 '26
No1, No4, and to a lesser, No5, are all readily found on used listings. These days though, because of price increase of rifles and ammunition, they're more likely collectables than anything else.
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u/ScorpionRox Apr 18 '26
I was lucky to find a non-sporterized No. 4 Mk 1 on gunpost a few years back. $950 plus shipping. An awesome find, was all original, until my cousin broke the rear sight and I had to find a replacement. 😡
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u/Flat-Dark-Earth Big Bore Specialist Apr 18 '26
How hard is it to source parts, stripper clips, slings etc for them today?
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u/ScorpionRox Apr 18 '26
Stripper clips were pretty easy to find. Finding the sight wasn't terrible, but had to dig a bit for an authentic one.
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u/Poffertjes_lover Apr 18 '26
Firearms outlet sells stripper clips as well as many other places. I bought a bunch off Amazon a while ago
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u/TheSmallSlice Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26
Bidding on a sporterized Winchester P14 1917 right now, I'll have to see how good it actually is though. The auction says its good condition but I'll still take a look at the barrel and bolt and all that if I win. I'm not bidding very much for it anyways but fingers crossed it could be a steal.
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u/Longjumping_Deer3006 Apr 18 '26
If you can (even though it would be more expensive) get a Lee Enfield chambered in 7.62x51 NATO.
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u/joe_canadian Seven Rifles and a Shotgun Apr 18 '26
Other people have already nailed the actual buying of the Lee Enfield, so I won't say anything about that. Here's my Lee Enfield story.
I had $400 and was at the now defunct Pickering Gun Show. A guy had a Yugo M48 BO with a Syrian Crest and a Lee Enfield No.5 Mk.1 (Jungle Carbine). I went to get cash and told him I'd decide on my way to and from which one I'd grab. I took the Yugo. I'm not disappointed in my decision, but the sky rocketing prices of the Lee Enfield made it hurt a bit. At the time Syrian Crested Yugo Mausers were selling for $600 on the US Market, Jungle Carbines were $500-$600 here in Canada.
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u/Hwight_Doward Apr 18 '26
I am currently restoring a sporterized 1915 BSA No1 mk III (about $300) using a 1955 ishapore DP rifle as a donor for all the furniture and hardware to bring it back to the original configuration
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u/blogginsgod Apr 18 '26
My experience with a jungle carbine is a great rifle but fire a few shots for zero with every use as the zero can wander off. Kinda hurts firing $10 just to make sure the zero is good. (I'm also a shit shot).
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u/Flat-Dark-Earth Big Bore Specialist Apr 18 '26
Are they as uncomfortable to fire as I have read? Something to do with old rubber buttpads?
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u/jwh-109 Apr 18 '26
Yeah, the old rubber pads basically turn to concrete as they age. It's not unnoticeable but I find it doesn't make my no. 5 significantly less pleasant to shoot than my no. 3. Where I really notice the difference is muzzle climb. Unlike the poster above I haven't found any issue with "wandering zero", but with a sample size of one rifle I can't say it's definitively not a thing.
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u/Q-Ball7 In the end, it's taxes all the way down Apr 18 '26
It's more because it's a 7 pound gun with no [functional] recoil pad firing a full-power rifle cartridge from a short barrel (some people class increased muzzle blast to be a component of recoil, and not unfairly either).
Those properties are not unique to the No. 5, but the No. 5 is the most prolific surplus rifle to have those properties.
Of course, considering the more extensive sporterized examples of No. 1/4s come relatively close to what the No. 5 was from the factory, it obviously isn't that bad. Maybe not something you want to just pound rounds through, but for hunting and occasional use it's fine.
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u/blogginsgod Apr 18 '26
I got a sporterized stock and still have the military stock to swap out. Way better with the sporterized stock! I can only shoot about 40 rounds a day with some bruising but I'm not a large dude.
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u/IGnuGnat Apr 18 '26
My understanding is that the wandering zero was a bit of a myth. People unconsciously flinch because the buttpad is smaller on the carbine, and it's lighter so they take a bigger hit when they fire. When the rifle is mounted to a stand and not a human there is no wandering,
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u/blogginsgod Apr 18 '26
I find at least one mine it always needs a few clicks. Might just be mine was stored poorly before it came to me
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u/s13silvia Apr 18 '26
If you are getting a no1, check for parts marked DP. There have been a few of sporters restored with drill purpose rifles. I wouldn’t say don’t buy one that’s been restored, but keep an eye out for them and pay less for them. They may also need fitment work.
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u/Wokeforpepe Apr 18 '26
If you can find a legitimate No. 5 Mark 1, that would be THE Lee enfield to own.
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u/SuspiciousName653 Apr 18 '26
My dream firearm! Will never happen though unfortunately
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u/Flat-Dark-Earth Big Bore Specialist Apr 18 '26
Why’s that?
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u/SuspiciousName653 Apr 18 '26
Not in our budget. I had the chance once upon a time to have one but the seller sold to someone else.
Ive wanted one ever since I was young and my dad borrowed one to go deer hunting up in Burks Falls. Then knowing they're an iconic piece of Canadian military history holds dear to my heart as my grandfather served in Korea
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u/blogginsgod Apr 18 '26
A few years ago they were $300 rifles. With the bans on most rifles the demand is higher so prices have gone up on pretty much everything left. Also the ammunition is crazy expensive as the military surplus has all been fired...