r/canadaguns Mar 15 '26

Application / Regulation advice How does this part of Firearm law works : Semiauto rifles designed and made after 31 Dec 2023.

So we have this part of firearm law that was introduced with C-21 I guess...

I quote

A firearm that is not a handgun and that

  1. discharges centre-fire ammunition in a semi-automatic manner;
  2. was originally designed with a detachable cartridge magazine with a capacity of six cartridges or more; and
  3. is designed and manufactured on or after December 15, 2023

End quote

With this, how come likes of Akdas Alcor 223 is being sold in Canada?

Akdas Alcor was :

- Designed and Manufactured in 2024.

- Originally was designed for 5 10 or 20 round detachable box mag.

How come it has not been classified as prohibited?

Another Example:

Celik Arms Chimera. It was introduced in Canada last year. It shows up on their youtube 1 year back. It is not an old design, it seems a brand new product! And its original design has a 5 round and a 10 round AR 15 magzine.

So, More importantly, how will this affect import of new firearms designed after december 2023?

25 Upvotes

21 comments sorted by

39

u/[deleted] Mar 15 '26

[deleted]

-24

u/Due_Reflection4094 Mar 15 '26 edited Mar 15 '26

source please?

I looked at their turkish website on archive.org. It does not have any entry for Alcor 223 before May 2024.

Another example (added) is Celik Arms Chimera.

35

u/[deleted] Mar 15 '26

[deleted]

-9

u/Due_Reflection4094 Mar 15 '26

So, if I want to introduce say a new 9mm or 45 ACP PCC in Canada, all I got to do is to clone say Marlin Camp Carbine and call it day?

Also, this means, new semi auto designs will stop coming in Canada? Because no one is going to make a stupid 5 round magazine 9mm PCC or even a hunting rifle.

Or may be (if Canada was big enough) it will get california treatment. Basically internal mags filled with stripper clips. Like SKS.

14

u/goshathegreat Mar 15 '26

Dude, this is literally the exact reason why the liberals say they’re banning old historic firearms. They tried with Bill C21 but we still had too many “scary guns” and then said that old historic guns could be “redesigned to become assault weapons”…

10

u/Eisenbahn-de-order Mar 15 '26

I'll imagine if you cloned older designs that are still legal it should be fine? One should really make them with longer barrels so that they are nr lol

9

u/Goliad1990 Mar 15 '26

all I got to do is to clone say Marlin Camp Carbine and call it day?

No, because your clone would have been designed after 2023.

This whole "after December 2023" provision is going to be eliminated in the near future anyway, so this is a pointless exercise. It only existed to deceive the NDP into voting for the C-21 amendments in committee, and it's already been effectively nullified by the last couple of OICs.

Also, this means, new semi auto designs will stop coming in Canada?

With the exception of shotguns and rimfire rifles, yes. There will be the exceptionally rare hunting rifle every once in a while, but that's it.

Until all semi-autos are banned entirely, which is the likely outcome when the Tumbler Ridge details hit the press and the prohibitionists start banging the war drums yet again.

2

u/Acceptable_Visit_115 Mar 15 '26

We know that continuous modern day production of a pre-2023/12 design is legal.

We just don't know if someone else producing an existing design (Camp Carbine) meets the C21 definition or not. And no manufacturer (understandably) wants to spend the money and effort to try it.

3

u/Acceptable_Visit_115 Mar 15 '26

FRT inspection takes YEARS. It is a very well known fact.

Since it received the RCMP's blessing, it is not a stretch to believe that their pre-release models were sent to the RCMP way before the December 2023 deadline.

4

u/[deleted] Mar 15 '26

[deleted]

2

u/Acceptable_Visit_115 Mar 15 '26

Haha I remember yall talking about the LPC. That was quite something.

8

u/Automatic-Height4246 Mar 15 '26

They have a default capacity of 5 round.

Their original magazine is 5 shots which is a very effective argument for that and thats why they are “unbannable”

Btw they banned alot of bolt actions or singleshot shotguns too

1

u/mischling2543 Mar 15 '26

Which bolt actions? I thought it was just really big caliber firearms that got hit

2

u/Automatic-Height4246 Mar 15 '26

Mostly prolly manual actions r banned that r historical or big cal. Semi autos are not even close to “only thing they ban “. They ban stuff for politics and votes of the ignorant ppl who dont know what it is to legally own a gun in canada including licencing system, storge and safety rules, etc.

Anything that is not direct AR15 copys or mini 14 copys, semiauto centre fire with any caliber other than 50 cal, detached magazines, default mag cap of 5 rounds or less would be okay. Its just politics and if they make smt like henry hs like PCCs with 5 round default capacity, but pistol magazines can hold 10 mostly, and sell adapters for glock mags like homesteader, well, the rules are clear.

2

u/Lumindan Mar 15 '26

Don't look up the KD200 then. 223 rem btw.

6

u/julienjj Mar 15 '26 edited Mar 15 '26

My take is this is unenforceable.

I'm not a lawyer but as an engineer I would make the point that by contraposition the only way to be certain of the point #2 is if the smallest magazine you can fit is of 6 or more round, then you know that the rifle was NOT designed for 5 and less.

If a 5 rounds magazine fit, then you cannot prove that it was designed for a capacity of 6 or more. Think of it like a go-nogo gauge.

Point #3 is dumb too. How can you tell when something is designed ? Let's say I work at "rouugger" and I saved a blank drawing on my PC named pew-pew and drawn one line on it back in 2018. This year we finish developing the pew pew. It's a 2018 design ? seems like you have to satisfy the AND condition for point #3.

Only if 1, 2 and 3 are met then it is a prohibited.

That's so weird they try to enact those laws then just try to add so much stuff on top of each other that it ends with such a bad law. All they needed was point #1 and manufacturer on or after december 2023 to ban everything. I guess that's what happens when you have the useless people in the back try to add a little insignificant thing to a project to say later that they participated ?

6

u/Due_Reflection4094 Mar 15 '26

Look, I am an engineer too but lets face it, laws are designed by normies and enforced by dumber normies and interpreted by the dumbest normies in wigs.

So, the way I see is, they will look into the the "dictionary meaning" and intention of this stupid turd of the section in the law.

That is they will ask the person who is getting a new FRT entry for importing a firearm to prove that it was designed earlier than 31st Dec 2023. They do it already in antique firearms and ask the production date of a fire arm and evidence based on serial number.

They will ask the importer some kind of letter from the manufacturer for design date. To be honest what the fuck is "designed" is also hard to tell.

Or may be Turkish folks will work around by providing new designs with SKS'ish fixed mag. Which will be replaced by a mag well by customers with kits sold separately. Like the situation is in Canada. May be it will need a gunsmith's service to make some cuts.

2

u/Acceptable_Visit_115 Mar 15 '26

Who knew. Turkish engravers can stamp a 2022 date on the gun and write you a letter. There's no way in hell you can carbon date it lol

1

u/SirKickBan Mar 15 '26

This isn't the sort of law where you require absolute proof about the design intent before you can act, it's more along the lines of "A judge / appointed group will decide it".

So if they saw, for instance, advertising material in which the firearm is depicted as fitting an ar-15 magazine, or if the manufacturer makes a 6+ magazine for it, even if they also make 5 round magazines and claim that's the 'original intent', that's likely more than enough evidence.

1

u/dingobangomango Mar 15 '26

This sounds a lot like the controversial amendment G.46 which I thought wasn’t adopted?

1

u/BillardsDaddy Mar 17 '26

What about the Crusader Arms Backland Hunter?

1

u/Due_Reflection4094 Mar 17 '26

Being a Canadian designed and made rifle, it should be originally designed for 5 rounds only.

0

u/Acceptable_Visit_115 Mar 15 '26

The Alcor is designed before December 2023. Otherwise it would have been prohibited under C21.

Not many people design, manufacture, and market a firearm all in the same year. 

Also these are Turkish rifles. They all share the same generic shotgun (or Benelli R1) design. It's likely that these guns were designed long ago but there isn't a market for them in Canada until the 2024-25 OICs.

2

u/Automatic-Height4246 Mar 15 '26

Design dates in my opinion can be use less. Follow the rest of the rules, it wont be bad