r/canadaguns • u/OrionPax120 • Jun 22 '23
Templar failure
About 200 rounds through. Brass deflector blasted off at the same time as what looks like the piston shot out the front. First I've heard or seen this happen with a Templar, but I'm not thrilled.
Awaiting word from customer service. I don't want to say it, cause I really enjoy the Templar for what it is, but I should have just gone with the Bren 2.
(aside from this I enjoy the thing... Hoping I'm just the unlucky fluke.)
16
u/CanadianDudeman Jun 22 '23
Did it just walk itself out and unthread, or did it strip the threads in the gas block and blast out?
3
u/OrionPax120 Jun 23 '23
CA agrees it's likely due to just walking itself out and that "it's not an issue at all". The sheared brass deflector will need to be addressed by them. I'm sending it back for a full once over and possible upper receiver replacement etc.
They're fairly accommodating in the email; however im quite disappointed they claim that the 200 rounds through warrants stripping, cleaning, and tightening of the piston from my end. I'm sorry but no. I get that this isn't the same as the service rifles I've been around, but inspection/stripping of the gas system after every 200 rounds is not reasonable.
All in all, if I'm the one example of this failure, sure. I'll be the unlucky lotto winner. If it were to be a consistent issue, I'd have zero confidence going forward. Hoping it's the former.
Aside from this... Happy with the rifle... for now. (glad I have my GHM9-G on the way)
2
u/MacPapRonin Jul 05 '23
Thread necromancy - did your issue get resolved to your satisfaction? What was the final resolution?
2
u/OrionPax120 Jul 05 '23
They were very attentive. They said it doesn't need to be done, but they will replace the upper and go over everything else with a fine tooth comb. It's been sent in and I'm just awaiting the return.
48
u/KorporalKarnage Jun 22 '23
Reason #134 I'll never jump on the cdn made 180 clone fad.
I'll stick to my overpriced, but reliable, Swiss bricks thankyouverymuch.
4
Jun 22 '23
Exactly this. After having owned a GHM9, which is their most budget oriented firearm we can get, I really see no attraction to much of anything else we have available until it's been on market for years and has been smoothed out
1
u/Aromatic_Message8952 Jun 22 '23
Unfortunately, if Bill C-21 passes, I don't know if they will be allowed to make revisions or new generations. If CFAC doesn't get to them first
1
u/Eviljinious1 Jun 23 '23
yep, unless, you buy it and replace most of the innards. I did that with my WK190C Gen 2
0
10
u/Flat-Dark-Earth Big Bore Specialist Jun 22 '23
Why can't we have nice things?
20
u/Aromatic_Message8952 Jun 22 '23
The Liberal Party of Canada
-3
u/Flat-Dark-Earth Big Bore Specialist Jun 22 '23
Are they the reason why Canadian manufacturers can't seem to make quality firearms?
6
u/Aromatic_Message8952 Jun 22 '23
Well, I mean, if Canadians had to compete with American manufacturing, then I think they would do better.
8
u/RentedZone CU Shotgun President Jun 23 '23
It costs a lot to start building and developing this stuff. Doesn't help that they could invest hundreds of thousands just to have it banned tomorrow.
6
u/Flat-Dark-Earth Big Bore Specialist Jun 23 '23
That's fair, the constant fear/reality of prohibitions has forced manufacturers to jump from product to product following bans and forces products to market sooner than desired in fear of future bans,
6
u/captlevasseur Jun 22 '23 edited Jun 22 '23
Looks like the threads on the gas cap are intact so likely was not tightened fully. Did you just clean the gas system? The piston looks like someone cleaned the end of it at least. Its not an adjustable gas system (to the people asking about that) so it's either fully tightened or loose. Did you recover the spring as well for the piston? I don't see it in the pics. (edit. nevermind, I see it in the last pic inside the foregrip)
Going to check the screws on my deflector now just to ensure they are still tight. Not something I would normally be concerned with but if it happens to one gun it can happen to others.
3
u/MacPapRonin Jun 22 '23 edited Jun 22 '23
Did you adjust or try to adjust the gas valve at some point? As a few others have pointed out, unless the threads completely failed (super unlikely, generally), this would have to walk out a fair ways.
Were you mostly firing rapid fire most of those 200 rounds or slower shooting?
Here's a link to the manual for the Templar:
https://www.crusaderarms.ca/manual-download
The disassembly of the gas system is on page 13, which may help.
Not suggesting this is your fault and CA should definitely make this right for you; I'm just trying to figure out how this could happen so we can inform other owners.
3
u/MacPapRonin Jun 22 '23 edited Jun 22 '23
Thinking about this, and considering that the threads look intact, the most likely explanation is that CA calls the "gas valve pin" walked itself out (?)
Another possibility that u/Jaded_Economics7949 points out below : https://www.reddit.com/r/canadaguns/comments/14fus9s/comment/jp3d413/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 is that the gas valve itself cracked enough to allow the gas valve pin to be pushed out under pressure.
3
u/barthammer Jun 22 '23
Well damn. This is the first gas system failure I've seen from a templar. This really blows! Please keep us posted on what CA says. I suspect they will want you to mail this in for a full investigation.
I will say, if it was not fully tightened from factory I wouldn't be surprised. Fastener tightening seems to be a bit of a QC issue for CA.
The screws holding the steel plate to the receiver on mine were not fully tightened (and no loc-tite) and backed out after 4-500 rounds. No bad failure because of it (screws just fell out and I found 2/3 of them inside the trigger group), but I had to get new screws sent to me.
I've also seen someone report their barrel retaining screws coming loose.
2
u/Jaded_Economics7949 Jun 22 '23 edited Jun 22 '23
Threads don't look scrubbed on the gas valve, so I wonder if the gas block is cracked and damaged, or if the gas valve just slowly walked itself out. The brass deflector probably is unrelated and the screws holding it onto the receiver probably just walked out. It would take alot of force for something to hit the brass deflector, and shear the screws holding the deflector on the receiver. Doesn't look like the screws have been sheared or damaged, so I think they just walked themselves out. Also, it doesn't look like the piston rod has been broke or damaged in any way thankfully
2
2
u/OrionPax120 Jun 23 '23 edited Jun 23 '23
Appreciate the comments. CA agrees it's likely due to just walking itself out. The sheared brass deflector will need to be addressed by them. I'm sending it back for a full once over and possible upper receiver replacement etc.
They're fairly accommodating in the email; however im quite disappointed they claim that the 200 rounds through warrants stripping, cleaning, and tightening of the piston from my end. I'm sorry but no. I get that this isn't the same as the service rifles I've been around, but inspection/stripping of the gas system after every 200 rounds is not reasonable.
All in all, if I'm the one example of this failure, sure. I'll be the unlucky lotto winner. If it were to be a consistent issue, I'd have zero confidence going forward. Hoping it's the former.
Aside from this... Happy with the rifle... for now. (glad I have my GHM9-G on the way)
3
u/captlevasseur Jun 23 '23
If that's the way the gas pin came from the factory, then it was far too loose to begin with. I know on mine it was a real struggle to remove it for cleaning the first time. There's no way it would have walked out otherwise.
Likely the brass deflector was over torqued and that stretched the screws. I can't imagine the force of brass hitting it would have been enough to shear the screws otherwise.
2
u/MacPapRonin Jun 23 '23
FWIW I've put 740 rounds through my Crusader 9 Sentinel where the (later model) upper is identical to the current Templar upper and I've never touched the "gas valve pin" part. I've cleaned the barrel and the upper receiver/chamber area but not the gas system. I was planning on doing a gas system cleaning at 1000 rounds. Definitely going to check it out to make sure it hasn't walked out now, though.
4
u/MostEnergeticSloth Jun 22 '23
That is indeed a piston, and it went out the front? So your gas block is gone too then?
Makes me think your gas block disintegrated and/or detached itself in some other way. I'm not overly familiar with the templar but that looks to be an adjustable gas plug in your hand in the first photo, and the threads look okay... so where's the gas block..?
Part of me can't help but wonder if you got a spicy round, it blew your gas system apart, and thrashed your brass deflector with the ejection of brass and/or piston bits.. Which would be incredibly rare with factory loads, but it's just a hypothesis.
3
u/Jaded_Economics7949 Jun 22 '23
Doesn't look like the piston is damaged or broken. It would take a ton of force for the screws holding the brass deflector to shear off, and cause the brass deflector to fall off. The screws don't appear to be sheared. My guess is the screws walked themselves out. But I agree, we need to see the gas block. If the gas block isn't cracked or damaged, then the only other thing that likely happened is that the gas valve slowly walked itself out.
3
u/MostEnergeticSloth Jun 22 '23
Honestly based purely on that pic of the deflector mount holes, I was thinking it ripped the threads out of the receiver, not sheared the screws. Those holes don't look very nice...
1
u/Jaded_Economics7949 Jun 22 '23
Nah they don't look great, but could be a little of both, let's say it walked out so only 1 thread was hanging out, and then took an impact that cause that last thread to force its way through. I just can't see anything being able to scrub 2 fully threaded screws out
1
u/MostEnergeticSloth Jun 22 '23
They're likely pretty small as far as grip length goes. That's just an assumption based on the fact the bolt is reciprocating on the other side of the receiver so they likely can't protrude very much if at all.
I wouldn't be surprised if there was only a couple threads holding them in the first place, by design.
2
u/MacPapRonin Jun 22 '23
Oh yeah, for sure, hadn't thought of that possibility - if the gas block cracked enough or cracked open, yeah, it could let that gas valve pin (CA's term, not mine) launch.
2
1
Jun 22 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/steveestrago Jun 22 '23
Hey I have a CNC in my shed 🥴
5
0
Jun 22 '23
I’m not familiar with how the gas system works on this gun, but is there a chance it was clogged? If it wasn’t able to vent and all of that gas just got directed down the tube is it possible you basically turned your gas system into a projectile?
5
u/Jaded_Economics7949 Jun 22 '23
Nah I don't think it would pressure up that much, because it would have the barrel to continue expanding and then vent out the muzzle like a bolt action rifle
1
Jun 22 '23
Ya fair enough. I just the Templar also just has a cursed gas piston. This one did anyway
3
u/Jaded_Economics7949 Jun 22 '23
Well I think they've maintained a really good reputation, and this gas piston didn't snap either. Looks like it was most likely just the as valve walked out to the point that it popped out. Doesn't look like any damage was done to the rifle. Hopefully the OP posts a picture of the gas block so that we can see for sure
3
Jun 22 '23
They do seem to be holding up pretty well. Don’t see to many issues with them. I narrowed my search for a semi auto 5.56 down to a Templar or X95, ultimately decided I’ll go with the X95 just because their is no question about their reliability.
-1
-1
1
u/Electronic_Bunch_565 Jun 22 '23
I’ve said it once, and I’ll say it again the only reliable .223/5.56 firearm we have here (for a decent price) are x95s
1
u/Emergency-Elk7221 Jun 24 '23
Buy an overpriced canadian made gun they said…. It would be fun they said….
1
u/Business-Fennel6962 Jun 25 '23
I had the gas pin walk out on mine too. Simply tighten it down to prevent this. Easy.
The templar is solid....
1
u/Open-Bullfrog7692 Jun 26 '23
Haven't had this issue, but the pin that holds the firing pin came lose on the block and ejected the firing pin and took a chunk out of the extractor.
Emailed the company and returned the old block assembly and they shipped me a new one. I've pumped probably 200 rounds and no problems since then 😊
As much as their CS sucks for replying, the warranty division is excellent!
1
u/MacPapRonin Aug 28 '23
Hey u/OrionPax120 - I'm following outcomes of various repair/replacement stories for Crusader Arms firearms - how did this eventually turn out for you?
46
u/cartman101 Jun 22 '23
Templar failure is how we lost Jerusalem.