Pump Action Predator Defense - Then vs Now

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u/therowdyirishman Jan 28 '23 edited Jan 29 '23

Here's a comparison of my wilderness defence firearm vs my late Grandfather's rifle that I inherited.

The Shorty Shotty -

Mossberg 590 Shockwave 14in

Ergo Aluminum MLOK forend

Magpul SGA stock/high riser and AFG

S&J Hardware: velcro side saddle, jumbo aluminum safety and no jam type 3 delrin follower

"Amazon speshul" QD sling mounts

Outer Impact RDS mount

Bushnell RXS-250

S&J hardware was kind enough to order these Ergo forends in for me, tell them therowdyirishman sent you if you decide to pick one up. It's a very nice, premium feel option for the Shockwave which many other forends aren't compatible with.

Grandpa's Gamemaster -

Remington model 760 "Gamemaster" 30-06

14 lug rotating bolt with sliding dust cover (pretty heckin tactical for 1952 eh?)

Detachable 4 round mag

Shared controls with 870, push button safety and same action release location Metal trigger guard

SLICK pump action

Drilled and tapped for Williams peep sight OEM rear sadly lost to the sands of time

Both of my Grandfather's were running the venerable 760 back in the day. One was a bear gun at the hunt camp and on family camping trips. Meanwhile my paternal Grandpa used his serving on the Ottawa police "Bank Squad". The story goes that he selected the Gamemaster over a Thompson or pump action shotgun for responding to armed bank robberies. Confident in his marksmanship he opted for the heavy hitting thirty aught six over the tough to control Tommy or a range limited 12 gauge. So suffice it to say the 760 served them well, both in tactical and backwoods applications.

As one of my only heirlooms it's earned a forever home in my safe. Truth be told, the Mossberg 590 is what I carry in bear country and would prefer for tactical gun. However the beloved old Gamemaster lives on as "the big gun" I save for last when taking new shooters to the range. Leaving behind the comfort of red dots and magnified optics on my soft shooting black rifles, they settle in with intense concentration behind the 760's iron sights, feeling the reassuring heft of wooden furniture and blued steel in their hands. I stand behind them waiting to see the steel target reel from the devastating impact of 30-06. After they launch that first 180 grain pill down range and pump out the formidable brass we share a smile and sense of awe for the Gamemaster just as my Grandfather's did.

TLDR: Gamemaster was ahead of it's time and still got it, but I bring the shotty to watch my back in bear country these days.

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u/GinnAdvent Jan 28 '23

If the Gamemaster was shortened to shortest NR possible (not I would ever do such a thing to family heirloom), would it place the same category as shockwave but still be good for hunting?

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u/therowdyirishman Jan 29 '23

I'd love to provide my take on your question but I'm not sure exactly what you're asking... Here goes haha.

The Mossberg is my preference for predator defense primarily because it allows for mounting of modern accessories such as quick adjust two point slings, lights, and red dot sights which make it a more practical defensive firearm. It's also much more durable and corrosion resistant (less maintenance in the field) because it's primarily aluminum, polymer and matte blued.

The manual of arms also allows me to "top off" the tube. Meaning I can reload shells individually when time allows without manipulating the action, removing a mag, etc.

I also appreciate the slugs ability to shoot through brush without being deflected as easily as a spitzer rifle bullet. Not to mention the versatility of different shotgun loadings like throwing a pattern of buckshot which can be an advantage with faster erratic animals like a charging boar.

Short barrel length is a bonus for strapping it to a pack or managing it on a sling when hanging across the front of my torso. It also makes it easier to wield in confined spaces like dense brush.

The Gamemaster's main advantages are increased range and greater penetration, to chop the barrel to 11in (same OAL) would come with consequences. Since I just have irons the added range isn't really utilized and chopping the barrel would drop velocity (penetration too) and require machining for new sights/optic. Overall I would say the Remington would be a good hunting rifle and could still function for predator defense as it sits now, SBRing it would not make a ton of sense.

All that to say, you'd be better served by one of the new "black" lever guns in 45-70 or 44mag if you want a dual purpose predator defense/compact hunting rifle. If you want a hunting firearm configured to utilize the long range capabilities of rifle cartridges it won't be an ideal predator defense rig.

** Take this with a grain of salt as I don't hunt but am a general gun nerd who enjoys tactical/practical shooting with modern firearms **

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u/GinnAdvent Jan 29 '23

Ah ok, that's fine, your explanation makes a lot of sense. Sometimes, people are too focused on making one aspect of firearms good and neglected to pay attention to other aspect as well.

Perhaps I should look at the 44 mag options as a good hunting/defense firearms instead of spending needless amount of cash and time to modified something that shouldn't be.

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u/therowdyirishman Jan 29 '23

Good, glad I could help! Barrel length can certainly assist or inconvenience the user depending on the task at hand. An easy example of this is the many configurations of the AR platform in use by the US military.

MK18 - 10.3in barrel used primarily for CQB as it's handier in tight quarters and can be suppressed without making it cumbersome. This very short barrel makes it less capable at range (velocity loss) and also increases the report/recoil.

M4 - 14.5in standard issue barrel is a good jack of all trades, faster bullet speeds for less drop at range, still handy inside buildings/around vehicles, doesn't launch fireballs due to unburnt powder (when unsurpressed).

MK12 - 18in DMR style rifle, added barrel length to increase velocity, magnified optic and larger handguard/stock. Making it a more accurate but less maneuverable and well suited for close engagements.

I'm not sure what you'd like to hunt or what firearms you currently have access to. A 12g can be a good jack of all trades option albeit lacks the range of a real rifle. For example one could have a scoped rifled barrel for deer, a long smoothbore for birds and a 14in barrel for wilderness defense.

However like most tools a specialized option will always outperform a multitool at its given task. Also consider the range you plan to hunt at. If a red dot is all the magnification you need then the bolt action hunting rifle (in a sufficiently powerful cartridge) could serve a defensive role fairly well. It's just when you get into bolt action's in small cartridges with 3-9 optics that their viability for wilderness defense is significantly compromised.

Essentially pick a firearm/optic combo that you can wield quickly at close range. Then put the time in to train with it, this will be a lot easier if you start with something suited for the role. Check out the guide gun and scout rifle concepts for some inspiration.

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u/Suspicious-Yellow-23 Jan 28 '23

Nice combination, i get a wetspot over peep sights

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u/B_E_A_R_T_A_T_O Jan 29 '23

Same. I get juicy.

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u/therowdyirishman Jan 29 '23

Thanks man! I'm guilty of slapping an RDS or some optic on almost everything in my safe. I'm using this rifle to practice with traditional irons and build my proficiency. It's very satisfying because there's no doubt whether you had an impact on the steel even though I lose my sight picture under recoil haha.

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u/[deleted] Jan 29 '23

Why are they in your shower?

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u/therowdyirishman Jan 29 '23

Good lighting my guy! Besides that Shockwave build is dirty 👌

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u/art-of-erotica Jan 29 '23

Love the Shockwave. With all these additions, how much did the gun set you back $ wise ?

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u/therowdyirishman Jan 29 '23 edited Feb 16 '23

Thanks man, I appreciate that! I'm stoked with how this one turned out!

I've owned/sold a few tactical 12g in the past in different configurations figuring out what I liked. I decided to kit this one out right and not cut any corners. When the Shockwave came on sale for $90 off last year at Cabela's I couldn't resist. Here's the build list, prices are after tax.

Mossberg Shockwave Build

14in Mossberg 590 Shockwave $528 total reg $550 sale at $460

$213 Magpul SGA stock and Riser

$160 Ergo mlok forend

$100 RXS 250 micro red dot (staff discount normally $300ish)

$100 Outerimpact RDS mount

$40 Mcarbo spring kit

$35 AFG

$40 S&J 6 shot side saddle ×2

$20 S&J No jam follower

$35 S&J XL metal safety

$30 Sling mounts

Finished Build (almost - no light) = $1300

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u/art-of-erotica Jan 29 '23

Awesome !!! Thank you very much !!!!

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u/therowdyirishman Jan 31 '23

Happy to help man! S&J has a nice selection of shotgun goodies. Very knowledgeable guy running the place as well.

Pump Action Predator Defense - Then vs Now

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